War and Peace Group Read 2011 - "Wrap Up" (spoiler) Thread
Discussie75 Books Challenge for 2011
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1Deern
The last thread for our 2011 W&P Group Read.
Here you can post the thoughts that didn't fit into any of the other threads.
Here you can post the thoughts that didn't fit into any of the other threads.
2Deern
When I started reading this book I was confused by all the characters and their name variations, but I thought "hey - the book has 1200 pages, enough time to get to know them all and to learn about their backgrounds".
Now I am reading our first comments and realise that often we didn't learn much. Characters that seemed promising only turned up again once or twice and were then disposed off without much ceremony, sometimes they just died, but more often they simply disappeared. Example: I haven't the book here now, but the whole 'Prince Vassily family' played a major role in the first chapters and though Helene and Anatole had some important scenes, they all faded away quickly. Vassily's last action was asking Pierre for money once again. What happened to Ippolyte? And we would all have liked to know some more about Lise and Andrei or the reasons for the strange dynamics in the Bolkonsky family, but we didn't get that either.
Sometimes it was obvious early on that a character had a certain role to fulfill - Petya was much like a second Nicolai, but we already had the one, so Petya had to be the too young soldier victim.
I think Tolstoy must have started this project like a typical novel and then he got more and more immersed into the historical background and added that to the book. I read there was some major re-writing done after the first parts had already been published.
Would you say he kind of lost interest in some of the characters he had created and 'abandoned' them in favour of the historical parts which clearly fascinated him more at some point?
Now I am reading our first comments and realise that often we didn't learn much. Characters that seemed promising only turned up again once or twice and were then disposed off without much ceremony, sometimes they just died, but more often they simply disappeared. Example: I haven't the book here now, but the whole 'Prince Vassily family' played a major role in the first chapters and though Helene and Anatole had some important scenes, they all faded away quickly. Vassily's last action was asking Pierre for money once again. What happened to Ippolyte? And we would all have liked to know some more about Lise and Andrei or the reasons for the strange dynamics in the Bolkonsky family, but we didn't get that either.
Sometimes it was obvious early on that a character had a certain role to fulfill - Petya was much like a second Nicolai, but we already had the one, so Petya had to be the too young soldier victim.
I think Tolstoy must have started this project like a typical novel and then he got more and more immersed into the historical background and added that to the book. I read there was some major re-writing done after the first parts had already been published.
Would you say he kind of lost interest in some of the characters he had created and 'abandoned' them in favour of the historical parts which clearly fascinated him more at some point?
3Deern
Why do movie directors always think they have to improve a great plot? I just read that the latest TV miniseries version (some European co-production) ends with Natasha returning (alone!) into her ruined Moscow house, where she finds her old piano (intact!) and has nothing better to do than sit down and play a little. Pierre passes the house on his return to Moscow (alone! on foot!) and on hearing the piano, runs into the ruin where he and Natasha fall into each other's arms (not to forget dramatic background music). And they added a similarly "romantic" scene for Nicolai and Marya where she openly declares her love for him.
And Natasha falls in love with Andrei already in the very first scene (which takes place at the Rostovs and not at that society circle).
My parents own the DVD set, but now I think I don't want to watch it anymore.
And Natasha falls in love with Andrei already in the very first scene (which takes place at the Rostovs and not at that society circle).
My parents own the DVD set, but now I think I don't want to watch it anymore.
4JanetinLondon
Yep, just posted in Epilogue 1 that I thought he got bored with the characters, especially some of the minor ones, and just never bothered to round them out. He clearly got more and more interested in the philosophy as he went - it seems like the whole book is a process of working through what the heck happened in those years. At first he needs his characters, and likes them, but later he realizes he might not need all of them any more, I guess. That's okay, though, it still hangs together as a great story. I am giving it 5 stars.
Maybe some more thoughts on Pierre tomorrow.
Another thing I am wondering about is the title - why War and Peace? Why not Peace and War? or Life, Peace and War, or Life and War? Or War and Freedom (given his philosophical musings at the end)?
And.....a question for anyone who has seen the cover of the Penguin edition - I can't reproduce it from where I am - it's the one with a painting of soldiers trudging through snow, past dead bodies. The title is given as "Battle of Borodino", but that can't be right - the battle was certainly in the summer, not the winter. Possibly it's the French retreating back past the site, but not the battle itself - does anyone know?
And Nathalie, that film version sounds terrible - I will certainly skip it!
Maybe some more thoughts on Pierre tomorrow.
Another thing I am wondering about is the title - why War and Peace? Why not Peace and War? or Life, Peace and War, or Life and War? Or War and Freedom (given his philosophical musings at the end)?
And.....a question for anyone who has seen the cover of the Penguin edition - I can't reproduce it from where I am - it's the one with a painting of soldiers trudging through snow, past dead bodies. The title is given as "Battle of Borodino", but that can't be right - the battle was certainly in the summer, not the winter. Possibly it's the French retreating back past the site, but not the battle itself - does anyone know?
And Nathalie, that film version sounds terrible - I will certainly skip it!
5Deern
I just read on wiki that Tolstoy was reading Schopenhauer while writing the 2nd half of the book, which encouraged him to develop his own ideas about history and the role of the individual. I just imagine him, sitting at his desk and swearing because he realizes he has to rewrite the whole stuff that's already been published in parts.
6JanetinLondon
ha ha serves him right for thinking too much! But I am seriously impressed at what an intellectual he was. I mean, I know he had time, because other people probably did all his work, but plenty of other people in his situation wouldn't have bothered to do all that hard thinking and analysis. And I think it makes the book what it is, rather than "just" a story.
