War and Peace Group Read 2011 - Vol 2, Part V

New thread for Vol 2, Part V

Next thread: http://www.librarything.com/topic/111299

No, I haven't finished Part V yet, but I enjoyed chapter V so much this morning that I just had to post a comment. Boris, not being in love with Julie, but pretending to be, knowing that she knows his feelings are not real. She insisting to get a full love declaration 'in exchange' for the two estates she will bring into the marriage, knowing this will be the one and only love declaration she will ever hear from her future husband.

Courting a rich heiress was obviously hard work. Imagine coming back from war, having experienced so much 'real life' and then having to write terrible melancholy poems into an album... Bad acting from both parties here. And once engaged, the poems and melancholy are immediately dropped.

Poor Marya though. I suffered with her through the scenes with Mlle Bourienne. I hope her situation will improve soon.

After reading part III I now returned to part V and finished it.

Poor Pierre, back to his old ways, feeling like an old man already.

What exactly was Boris' big disappointment? I didn't find it anywhere. Did he really want to marry Natasha?

I was disappointed by Marya's treatment of Natasha. It could be expected, but she might have found an ally here.

Then the main bit.... Do you also hate it when you know what is going to happen, that it will be painful and you just can't stop reading? When the whole Anatole thing started I counted the pages to the end of the part and thought 'oh please - she can't do THAT in the remaining pages'. Then I learned she could. And as expected Andrei could not forgive her. Not that she really wanted him back yet, she was still too much tormented by the loss of Anatole.

I was not surprised by Anatole (we were warned he is a scoundrel), and I felt so sorry for Natasha. She shouldn't have fallen for him, but she's just 17, has an impulsive character, falls in love easily, hasn't seen her fiancé for a year, knows his family hates her... and obviously Anatole is a charming guy (we remember Mlle Bourienne and Marya). She so would have needed her mother. And Helene helped Anatole along, no doubt wanting to hurt Pierre.

Do I want to see Natasha with fat, clumsy, spectacled, but nice Pierre (I wish I could stop comparing him to Walter in "Freedom")? Is this an option for the future? She always liked and respected him, now we know that he loves her.

I was more suprised by Andrei--I thought he would be more forgiving somehow, or at least want an explanation. I thought he would have more heart--knowing what a scoundrel Anatole is. Oh well.

I wondered if Andrei had almost expected Natasha to back out. Keeping the engagement unofficial was caused not only by his fathers refusal to agree to that marriage, but also to leave an exit for Natasha. I am not sure why he did it, didn't he trust her feelings? Was it the age difference or the difference of characters? I guess he wasn't really surprised by her decision, though certainly more than disappointed.

And I don't think Natasha really wanted him back just after the scandal, having transferred all her feelings to Anatole. She just wanted to be forgiven.

Really enjoyed this section, especially as it took some characters in unexpected (by me) directions.

To me, the main event is Natasha's entry into Moscow society - she is clearly destined to be a leading light, although she hasn't yet realized it, living as she has mainly in the country. She is beautiful, charming, etc. Helene's reaction is very interesting - Natasha is a threat, as her beauty and youth will supplant Helene's place, but should she attack her, corrupt her, take her under her wing to get the benefits of her, or what? Because Helene and Anatole are so horrible, though, she opts for helping her brother try to seduce her, just for fun. Proof of what boring, pointless existences these people lead.
Then, Natasha's youth, frustration, etc., just burst out - she is overloaded, anxious about Andrei, young, thrilled, seeing society and her own power for the first time, and she is "ripe for the picking" - acting totally against her own nature (or maybe not!) and her cautious, traditional family. I was glad she eventually avoided both Boris and Anatole, and I for one do hope she winds up with Pierre, who will love her.

Sad to see the pathetic decline of old Bolkonsky, since I, unlike lots of readers, was quite liking him before - very stern, upright and principled, but now obviously just losing the plot.

You're right about Helene, I didn't think about the threat Natasha must have been for her in society.

After reading the very first chapter who would have thought the beautiful (and seemingly nice) Helene would develop into such a horrible person?

That's what boredom can do to you, I think....Tolstoy seems to believe that people really do need to have some point in their lives, or they just rot. This is why Pierre keeps seeking, because Tolstoy likes him (and so do I), also Andrei to some extent. The women have less opportunity, as all they can be is beautiful/charming - at least the war gives men some chance to find something beyond themselves.

I **LOVED** this section - I just raced through 40 pages before breakfast and am now planning a morning on the sofa to start Vol 3. I've already warned my husband that next time we argue I might have to use Pierre's line to his wife: "Wherever you are there is depravity and evil." (I know he meant it, but I got the giggles when I read it.) Now, how is Pierre going to get rid of Helene? I really like his newly discovered backbone when he is telling Anatole to leave town.

The women's lives are so constrained - ugh. The part about Boris marrying Julie to get the Penza and Nizhni Novgorod estates...

Janet, I am in the camp of people who liked the old prince till this part, too. He reminded me a bit of my ornery grandfather until this chapter.

You are really motoring now! Either you will be one of the Vol III lovers (like me), which means you will be finished before you know it, or you will get bogged down in the politics - I hope it's the former!

As for old Bolkonsky, I am guessing Tolstoy admired his political rectitude, sense of duty, etc., as much as I do, but wanted to show how every character can have more than one side.

I think I'm in the Vol III lovers category. I've hooned through another 30 pages this morning, so 70 so far today, and I am so into it that it's coming with us to the paddling pool and playground (in a freezer bag to keep it safe from the pool!!).

This section was a great read. I raced through it, desperately hoping Natasha wouldn't be as naive as I suspected she would. I was mostly angry with Andrei for leaving her alone so long.

And to think I started off liking Boris...

The Kuragins, however, were just as despicable as I expected them to be!