Dit onderwerp is gemarkeerd als "slapend"—het laatste bericht is van meer dan 90 dagen geleden. Je kan het activeren door een een bericht toe te voegen.
2Nicole_VanK
Well, according to "evidence", after the 6th day he was tired ;-)
3.Monkey.
>2 Nicole_VanK: LOL!
4pinkozcat
I think that he only had a time window of six days in which to create. That is why he had to create everything at once - fossils and all. Then the magic failed.
5Taphophile13
Why did most of the animals have to die? Were they wicked too?
6Marissa_Doyle
Possibly some of the sheep had been...
7Nicole_VanK
What always struck me as absurd: with all of those animals - how could one possibly limit the number of flees to just two? Noah - if he ever existed - probably more than that just in his beard.
8BruceCoulson
God was a Republican, and wanted to support private enterprise with public dollars.
10guido47
I just wonder where the hermaphrodites fitted in the ark? Aren't they same sex marriages?
Sorry, had to get that in. Today there was a positive vote on that topic (Gay marriage) in the ACT (a bit like Washington DC for you USA'ers) Our conservative (Federal) government has already said it will appeal it in the High Court (equivalent to your Supreme Court). I am neutral on that topic...
BUT. Although I AM AN ATHEIST I don't think we should disparage believers.
But give it to the Fundamentalists!
There are people like "Bishop Sponge" who I respect. Don't agree with but do respect.
This thread started out as a "teenage snigger".
Womder where it will end?
Sorry, had to get that in. Today there was a positive vote on that topic (Gay marriage) in the ACT (a bit like Washington DC for you USA'ers) Our conservative (Federal) government has already said it will appeal it in the High Court (equivalent to your Supreme Court). I am neutral on that topic...
BUT. Although I AM AN ATHEIST I don't think we should disparage believers.
But give it to the Fundamentalists!
There are people like "Bishop Sponge" who I respect. Don't agree with but do respect.
This thread started out as a "teenage snigger".
Womder where it will end?
11rastaphrog
When you think about it, why did he save Noah and his family? He created everything from nothing,so why didn't he just wipe everything out and start with a clean slate? He might have gotten it right, or at least not screwed up as badly the second time around. :Þ
12reading_fox
"What always struck me as absurd: with all of those animals - how could one possibly limit the number of flees to just two? Noah - if he ever existed - probably more than that just in his beard."
Lots of different flea species. Cat fleas are not dog fleas or human fleas or Giraffe. Each animal could conveniently carry all their own associated parasites saving floor space. But You'd still need several arks to fit all the beetles in. God really loves beetles.
Lots of different flea species. Cat fleas are not dog fleas or human fleas or Giraffe. Each animal could conveniently carry all their own associated parasites saving floor space. But You'd still need several arks to fit all the beetles in. God really loves beetles.
13jbbarret
There's a simple answer to this on http://carm.org/ .
"There were two qualifications for the animals on board the Ark: they not only had to be those which moved about on the earth, but also those that had the breath of life, or "nephesh." The word "nephesh" refers to those animals with soul: or, if you like, "responsive personality." Thus, you would have all mammals that lived on land, reptiles, and birds. Amphibians did not need the Ark, and insects, worms, bacteria, etc., do not have a nervous system which is complex enough to mark the animal or organism as having a uniqueness and the trainability which "nephesh" implies. Thus, these organisms were preserved in various ways outside the Ark through the flood."
So there we have it, a simple answer for simple people, they were preserved in various other ways. You can't argue with that, it stands to reason.
"There were two qualifications for the animals on board the Ark: they not only had to be those which moved about on the earth, but also those that had the breath of life, or "nephesh." The word "nephesh" refers to those animals with soul: or, if you like, "responsive personality." Thus, you would have all mammals that lived on land, reptiles, and birds. Amphibians did not need the Ark, and insects, worms, bacteria, etc., do not have a nervous system which is complex enough to mark the animal or organism as having a uniqueness and the trainability which "nephesh" implies. Thus, these organisms were preserved in various ways outside the Ark through the flood."
So there we have it, a simple answer for simple people, they were preserved in various other ways. You can't argue with that, it stands to reason.
14Nicole_VanK
So, apparently, some animals are supposed to have souls (whatever those are supposed to be - please define) and some haven't. So how is that reasonable? Your idea of reason must be somewhat different from mine.
15southernbooklady
The most tedious class I ever had was a high school AP English class with a teacher who was obsessed with "debunking" literature. We spent an interminable amount of time on the Book of Genesis, where this guy insisted on cataloging every contradiction and every inane statement in the book. "See!" he'd say, "Nowhere is it ever said that the fruit of the tree of knowledge is an apple." I was never so bored in my life.
As creation myths go, the story of Noah's Ark is more run of the mill than many.
As creation myths go, the story of Noah's Ark is more run of the mill than many.
16jbbarret
But how many of those other myths have inspired such a wonderful collection of toys? I remember mine.
17jbbarret
Although, looking back, I realise how incomplete and therefore untrue that those toys were. They had elephants and giraffes and all those sort of things of course, but no dinosaurs. I wonder, if I wrote to that nice Mr. Ken Ham, whether he could add to those wonderful animations of his, where he does have dinosaurs, whether in addition to Noah sending out a raven and a dove we could see Noah sending out a pterodactyl. That would be something, wouldn't it? Give those evolutionists something to think about.
19guido47
And why has no one yet mentioned Cats? May I suggest a LT variant of Godwins Law Guidos Law
ie. The first mention of cats will derail any discussion.
ie. The first mention of cats will derail any discussion.
20jbbarret
> 18: Well, unicorns in the bible, yes they are there in the KJV, have been explained away as the single horned rhinoceros. Plenty of room for them on the ark.
(see http://www.creationtoday.org/why-does-the-bible-mention-unicorns/ )
> 19: Cats are a problem I've been worrying about. In #9 it's stated that Noah only saved virtuous animals. If that's the case, then why have we got cats?
(see http://www.creationtoday.org/why-does-the-bible-mention-unicorns/ )
> 19: Cats are a problem I've been worrying about. In #9 it's stated that Noah only saved virtuous animals. If that's the case, then why have we got cats?
21BruceCoulson
Cats are virtuous; it's our flawed human understanding of them that might indicate otherwise.
Still, they're very tolerant of our lapses.
Perhaps other (unclean) animals pose a larger problem? Why would swine still exist after the flood?
Still, they're very tolerant of our lapses.
Perhaps other (unclean) animals pose a larger problem? Why would swine still exist after the flood?
23jbbarret
One evening last October, when I was far from sober
And dragging home a load with manly pride
My feet began to stutter and I fell down in the gutter
And a pig came up and parked right by my side
Then I mumbled, "It's fair weather when good comrades get together"
Till a lady passing by was heard to say,
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
Then the pig got up and slowly walked away.
And dragging home a load with manly pride
My feet began to stutter and I fell down in the gutter
And a pig came up and parked right by my side
Then I mumbled, "It's fair weather when good comrades get together"
Till a lady passing by was heard to say,
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
Then the pig got up and slowly walked away.
24Taphophile13
The Cat Who Went to Heaven by Elizabeth Jane Coatsworth was a favorite of mine. Cats are okay with Buddha.
25Taphophile13
Why doesn't anyone ever address the practical aspects of all those animals in a finite enclosure for forty+ days and nights? Confining wild animals during a storm doesn't sound like good time.
What did all of them eat? Did Noah bring extra animals to feed to the predators or did they all become vegans for the voyage? The odor must have been incredible especially on the poop deck.
I do like the idea of the pterodactyl. Let's use that from now on.
What did all of them eat? Did Noah bring extra animals to feed to the predators or did they all become vegans for the voyage? The odor must have been incredible especially on the poop deck.
I do like the idea of the pterodactyl. Let's use that from now on.
26jbbarret
>21 BruceCoulson: : With my two subsequent posts I realise that I hadn't fully appreciated that you might have been referring to swine being unclean in the Jewish sense. But it's worth remembering that they don't all go the whole hog.
27BruceCoulson
Are you saying that refusing pigs passage would have been shellfish?
28jbbarret
Ah, shelfish. The state of being keen on shelves. How could Noah have managed without shelves.
Shelf lovers everywhere should be thankful for how much they have to be grateful for.
Shelf lovers everywhere should be thankful for how much they have to be grateful for.
29jbbarret
>25 Taphophile13:: The pterodactyl. Yes, I often think how Noah, or one of his family,must have gone around every day putting fresh grit in the pterodactyl's cage. And a bit of cuttlefish between the bars for it to peck on. It's amazing what they did.
30varielle
At least he saved the bees. http://www.librarything.com/groups/beekeepersbooks But then if he only had a queen and a drone there wouldn't have been any worker bees to look after things. So confusing....
31Taphophile13
I also wonder how the animals came to be distributed on the different continents. If they all got off at the same time wouldn't there be tigers, penguins, giraffes, platypuses and llamas everywhere? Or did they all have to migrate to their current homes? Or was Noah nice enough to visit each continent and drop off the appropriate animals?
33Sandydog1
Did he have to save two of Triponema pallidum? Or, did syphillis just come along with the fleas?
34HenriMoreaux
#17 This is why there were no dinosaurs.
35HenriMoreaux
#33 I'd sure love to hear how he didn't manage to take more than two Demodex mites along being that the average adult has 1-2 mites per square centimetre living on their face.
And on the topic of Demodex/religion, if intelligent design is true then I'd love to hear the wonderful intelligence behind this design: Demodex does not have an anus and therefore cannot get rid of its faeces. Their abdomen just gets bigger and bigger, until they become so distended they die, then as they decompose they release their faeces all at once, onto your face.
And on the topic of Demodex/religion, if intelligent design is true then I'd love to hear the wonderful intelligence behind this design: Demodex does not have an anus and therefore cannot get rid of its faeces. Their abdomen just gets bigger and bigger, until they become so distended they die, then as they decompose they release their faeces all at once, onto your face.
36guido47
Umm, #34,
I always thought this was the real reason
ETA. So that's why my Cats lick my face, Demodex shit Yum.
I always thought this was the real reason
ETA. So that's why my Cats lick my face, Demodex shit Yum.
38Nicole_VanK
This author has been deleted by his message.
39Marissa_Doyle
>38 Nicole_VanK: So where should we send flowers? ;)
40Taphophile13
>35 HenriMoreaux:
And I suppose that is not considered a design flaw but is actually what the designer had in mind? (There are some things in this world that I would be just as happy not to know about.)
And I suppose that is not considered a design flaw but is actually what the designer had in mind? (There are some things in this world that I would be just as happy not to know about.)
41HenriMoreaux
40> If it's what the designer had in mind then it's not an intelligent design ;)
42Sandydog1
>35 HenriMoreaux: Thanks for sharing that. Really. I just read so much about Demodex, sp., on the internet (after all, it must be true).
Why weren't these cute critters ever mentioned in the Bible?
I know, I know, we've all seen this a million times, perhaps even I've posted it a few times me'self (I'm old and forgetful). It's still a f___in' hoot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXpOjKfu3M0
"...I don't think the author of this, is a zoologist..."
Why weren't these cute critters ever mentioned in the Bible?
I know, I know, we've all seen this a million times, perhaps even I've posted it a few times me'self (I'm old and forgetful). It's still a f___in' hoot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXpOjKfu3M0
"...I don't think the author of this, is a zoologist..."
43HenriMoreaux
>42 Sandydog1: Love that video.
What I find interesting is that if one accepts that God is all powerful and the creator of all, then one must also accept that he is to blame for all sin, as he would be the one who created people with the desire to sin and the ability to sin. He then punishes people for his own failings, which in turn would mean he is not all powerful because his creations failed to meet his own expectations.
What I find interesting is that if one accepts that God is all powerful and the creator of all, then one must also accept that he is to blame for all sin, as he would be the one who created people with the desire to sin and the ability to sin. He then punishes people for his own failings, which in turn would mean he is not all powerful because his creations failed to meet his own expectations.
45Sandydog1
And why the freak didn't the Bible mention freakin' Kanga-freakin'- roos?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3X5f3gY4iw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3X5f3gY4iw
46HenriMoreaux
Also relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1BzP1wr234
47justjim
>34 HenriMoreaux:, >36 guido47:
I was under the impression the cause was a much more noble one!
©Zach Weiner, SMBC Comics. Image links to his site.
I was under the impression the cause was a much more noble one!
©Zach Weiner, SMBC Comics. Image links to his site.
48darrow
A few extras were taken for sacrifice and breeding.
(Genesis 7:2-3) - "You shall take with you of every clean animal by sevens, a male and his female; and of the animals that are not clean two, a male and his female, also of the birds of the sky, by sevens, male and female, to keep offspring alive on the face of all the earth"
"Then Noah built an altar to the LORD, and took of every clean animal and of every clean bird and offered burnt offerings on the altar," (Gen. 8:20).
(Genesis 7:2-3) - "You shall take with you of every clean animal by sevens, a male and his female; and of the animals that are not clean two, a male and his female, also of the birds of the sky, by sevens, male and female, to keep offspring alive on the face of all the earth"
"Then Noah built an altar to the LORD, and took of every clean animal and of every clean bird and offered burnt offerings on the altar," (Gen. 8:20).
50Taphophile13
So was it a bit like first class and steerage? "We're breeders. We don't associate with them, they're only going to be sacrificed."
52southernbooklady
>51 Sandydog1: So bizarre. You can see why Richard Dawkins tends to lose his shit when the topic of religion comes up.
53Sandydog1
And now, as a result of that darn Bill Nye, there is enough of an obscene amount of money to actually build an Ark for the first time.
http://arkencounter.com/
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/03/01/284397588/creation-museum-bill-ny...
http://arkencounter.com/
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/03/01/284397588/creation-museum-bill-ny...
54StormRaven
55: Maybe. The only indication that we have that there are sufficient funds is that Ham has said that he can start building. Given Ham's less than friendly relationship with the truth, there's reason to be skeptical.
55Sandydog1
I can't believe I'm saying this publicly, but if I'm ever in the greater Cincinnati area, I might just pay a visit to the Creation Museum.
I've no idea how I'd react, but I hope it will be in a controlled, relatively serene manner.
Lewis Black comes to mind...
I've no idea how I'd react, but I hope it will be in a controlled, relatively serene manner.
Lewis Black comes to mind...
56rastaphrog
It would seem some people aren't too happy with the new movie about Noah. They say it's "Historically inaccurate".
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/03/06/russell-crowe-film-noah-edited-appease-chr...
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/03/06/russell-crowe-film-noah-edited-appease-chr...
57StormRaven
56: How can mythology be "historically inaccurate"?
58southernbooklady
A movie takes liberties with the story in the book? Shocker.
59paradoxosalpha
Hollywood has no respect. You know what they did to the historical Pinocchio.
60varielle
It seems to have some prominent stars, I couldn't understand why they would have wanted to appear in it. Time for new agents?
61southernbooklady
>60 varielle:
Fundamentally, it wouldn't be any different from appearing in "Troy," or "Monsters, Inc." It's the story that's important.
Fundamentally, it wouldn't be any different from appearing in "Troy," or "Monsters, Inc." It's the story that's important.
62Sandydog1
>56 rastaphrog:
Would there have been outrage had they done the original/"prequel" Gilgamesh, instead?
>58 southernbooklady:, 61
"300", "the Hunchback of Notre Dame", "Beowulf", The Orchid Thief (the book was actually an interesting piece of nonfiction)... we could go on for ever.
By the way, I thought The Preservationist was rather clever.
Would there have been outrage had they done the original/"prequel" Gilgamesh, instead?
>58 southernbooklady:, 61
"300", "the Hunchback of Notre Dame", "Beowulf", The Orchid Thief (the book was actually an interesting piece of nonfiction)... we could go on for ever.
By the way, I thought The Preservationist was rather clever.
63.Monkey.
>56 rastaphrog: I didn't click the link, but I noticed a headline on some news site that said it's being banned in Islamic countries.
65.Monkey.
Might have been. My chat client crashed earlier so I don't have the conversation handy with the link that I'd originally followed.
66southernbooklady
>62 Sandydog1: The Orchid Thief (the book was actually an interesting piece of nonfiction)... we could go on for ever.
Now, now. In defense of "Adaptation," it was a movie about the impossibility of making a book into a movie. I loved that film.
Now, now. In defense of "Adaptation," it was a movie about the impossibility of making a book into a movie. I loved that film.
68rastaphrog
>63 .Monkey.: Yep, definitely banned in three, with others expected to do the same
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/03/08/hollywood-blockbuster-noah-faces-religious...
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/03/08/hollywood-blockbuster-noah-faces-religious...
70Taphophile13
re: kangaroos
That's something I've wondered about. If the ark made landfall in Turkey how did all the kangaroos wind up in Australia and all llamas in South America and all the giraffes in Africa? Did the animals have to swim from all the way from Turkey? Those poor sloths aren't good swimmers. Or did Noah sail around and drop off the appropriate animals on each continent? How did he know who belonged where? After all, he had never seen most of these animals before, right? Or maybe it was sort of like a train conductor: "Au-stra-lia, Au-stra-lia! Everyone off for Au-stra-lia! Next stop, So-uth A-mer-ica!"
That's something I've wondered about. If the ark made landfall in Turkey how did all the kangaroos wind up in Australia and all llamas in South America and all the giraffes in Africa? Did the animals have to swim from all the way from Turkey? Those poor sloths aren't good swimmers. Or did Noah sail around and drop off the appropriate animals on each continent? How did he know who belonged where? After all, he had never seen most of these animals before, right? Or maybe it was sort of like a train conductor: "Au-stra-lia, Au-stra-lia! Everyone off for Au-stra-lia! Next stop, So-uth A-mer-ica!"
71AsYouKnow_Bob
Late to the conversation, but
>18 varielle: What about the unicorns?
http://arnoldzwicky.s3.amazonaws.com/AddamsUnicorn.jpg
(...which is clearly the inspiration for >34 HenriMoreaux:)
>18 varielle: What about the unicorns?
http://arnoldzwicky.s3.amazonaws.com/AddamsUnicorn.jpg
(...which is clearly the inspiration for >34 HenriMoreaux:)
72Sandydog1
Unicorns schmoonicorns.
Now don't get me wrong, I'd love to see one.
But I'd rather see a Tenontasaurus, an Andrewsarchus, a Moschops, or a Paraceratherium, a Platybelodon or a even a Dunkleosteus...any day of the week
Now don't get me wrong, I'd love to see one.
But I'd rather see a Tenontasaurus, an Andrewsarchus, a Moschops, or a Paraceratherium, a Platybelodon or a even a Dunkleosteus...any day of the week
73pinkozcat
#70 Perhaps Noah was in the time before the continental drift and Australia was the kangaroo paddock and the llamas were fenced into the area which is now South America.
74theoria
Controversial new biblical text http://www.amazon.com/The-Book-Bieb-God-ebook/dp/B00ILHW4LM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&a...
75Sandydog1
ol' Billy's on a tear:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/15/bill-maher-god-psychotic-mas-murderer_n...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/15/bill-maher-god-psychotic-mas-murderer_n...
76Bookmarque
That was fab. Love everything he said.
77PedrBran
Noah is the man...there are 900,000 insect species....flies...mosquitos...It must have been fun on the ark housing all them not to mention the hundreds of thousands of parasites in the world...don't forget the tape worms, etc.
It must of been a blessed time aboard the ark...good times.
It must of been a blessed time aboard the ark...good times.
78Sandydog1
Make sure ya take summathem Green Ahligators:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4bc9UwZsYs
But y know, I would've waited for those wonderful, playful Unicorns...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4bc9UwZsYs
But y know, I would've waited for those wonderful, playful Unicorns...