Take my group, please!
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1timspalding
Dutch is achieving lift-off!
Will someone step forward to take this group off my hands. Your duties are as follows:
1. Rename it (into something Dutch)
2. Write the description (in Dutch)
3. Give it an image, but not by yourself; ask people what it should be and pick something people like.
Anyone?
Will someone step forward to take this group off my hands. Your duties are as follows:
1. Rename it (into something Dutch)
2. Write the description (in Dutch)
3. Give it an image, but not by yourself; ask people what it should be and pick something people like.
Anyone?
2royalhistorian
*rises hand*
5timspalding
Handing it off to sophies_choice. A big round of applause for the group's new steward. (She's going to be listed as having created it; the database just has one field for now.)
Please note: I'm grateful and pleased someone wants to help Dutch-ify the group. I laid out how you could help it. I want to note, however, since I know there have been some tensions over translation, that getting the group does not give sophies_choice any special powers over translations generally.
Please note: I'm grateful and pleased someone wants to help Dutch-ify the group. I laid out how you could help it. I want to note, however, since I know there have been some tensions over translation, that getting the group does not give sophies_choice any special powers over translations generally.
7timspalding
>Dutch is achieving lift-off!
Today too. Still doing very well, although the press hit was last week.
Today too. Still doing very well, although the press hit was last week.
8boekerij
>5 timspalding:
This is quite odd, it looks to me, because it seems or even it turns out that at Sep 30, 2006, sophies_choice didn't even know about the existence of LT.
Apart from suspensions, I understand that because of Tim's newly added LT TOS -- cf. Translating LibraryThing? (General Talk) : Translations: The Three-Times Rule (/talktopic.php?topic=17667) -- I am explicitly forbidden to roll back i.a. xtien's latest "correction" of the "site" text snippet translation.
Take e.g. the "site" text snippet, that is part of "(language name) site" on the LibraryThing in your language Zeitgeist pages. Because if the language name is used as an adjective, in Dutch (as well as in some other languages) it is to be declined, i.e. : NOT "Nederlands webstek", but "Nederlandse webstek", or better yet: "Nederlandstalige webstek" (en: "Dutch language website). There is a solution though. I have pointed translators in different languages at using this solution, too, and they have. The solution is to have "site" translated into "(blank)". This way, the translation of the combination (in full) "Dutch website (LT.nl)" will show as : "Nederlands (LT.nl)", which is expressing the correct meaning, which is clear, and which is impeccable Dutch language.
Arriving the "correctors", this is the translation history of the "site" text snippet :
-----
§ website
§ (xtien, Aug 9, 2007)
§
§ (misspipvis, Aug 8, 2007 | oogst dit)
§
§ website
§ (misspipvis, Aug 8, 2007 | oogst dit)
§
§ (boekerij, Jun 7, 2007 | oogst dit)
§
§ website
§ (ruben32, Jun 7, 2007 | oogst dit)
§
§ Home
§ (ruben32, Jun 7, 2007 | oogst dit)
§
§ (boekerij, Jun 7, 2007 | oogst dit)
§
§ Website
§ (ruben32, Mar 28, 2007 | oogst dit)
§
§ (boekerij, Mar 12, 2007 | oogst dit)
-----
(source: http://www.librarything.nl/translate.php?page=3471971737&stuff=1766001124)
It is quite clear that neither ruben32, the most avid "corrector", neither xtien, the most avid complainer, are bothering about context. They are "translating" and "correcting" in the blue--whatever the consequences. They are the best and they know it all and I, though not from Barcelona, I know nothing, I have got it wrong, by definition, and I am a troll.
Though, as I tried to explain above, the "site" text snippet was causing some problems indeed, they had been solved. Cf. my original translation dated Mar 12, 2007 (see above).
Arriving rough "corrector" ruben32, avid at "correcting" each and every text snippet that is/was having my user name stamp on it, he blindly "corrected" the "(blank)" into "Website", never minding, neither questioning nor even checking why at this very instance the "site" text snippet was translated into "(blank)". Sure enough, if one has got no context, the "(blank)" translation--or rather solution--must look quite odd. Then again, there was and is context.
By kind private notice, I had tried to point ruben32 at some problems, but at no avail. He knew it all, that was for sure, and he knew it best. My language skills, if I had got some of those, turned out to be worthless. Because ruben32 is not using LT.nl, neither, for that matter and as it appears, even checking the results of his (rough) "corrections", neither bothering whatever reasonable arguments, after having standed his crap for more than two months (Mar 28 - Jun 7) in order not to hurt anyone's most sensitive feelings and in order to provide (other) "correctors" to detect that the "correction" made no sense at all, the only possibility I got was turning back his rough "correction" indeed, returning it into "(blank)" (Jun 7). Obviously, ruben32 didn't like this. The very same day, he turned ("corrected") the text snippet into successively "Home" and "website". Sure enough, I turned it back into "(blank)" (all of this at Jun 7). The text snippet was left in peace until meddled misspipvis. At Aug 7, she turned the text snippet into "website", though obviously detecting her error at once--as it turns out, misspipvis did check the result of her "correction"--, she turned it back into "(blank)". Present "translation"/"correction" is "website", by xtien, Aug 9. She knows it best, does she?
Mind that the above is but one single example of many hundreds that are killing the (once) Dutch language edition of LT by turning into a Dutchy look.
What a misery.
Meanwhile, I had been suspended by Tim. As Tim says, touching i.a. xtien's crap would be a serious violation of LT TOS. Wow !
What's more : even after suspension time runs out, I am explicitly forbidden to put it back as it belongs. These are the consequences of Tim's (rough) "solution" as dictated in his Translating LibraryThing? (General Talk) : Translations: The Three-Times Rule (/talktopic.php?topic=17667).
I hope that Tim is quite happy that this way he is safeguarding the Dutchy edition of LT.
Congratulations !
Mind that Tim's rather mindless (sorry) instant and rough dictating his TTR "solution" will cause problems with different language LT editions, too. Take e.g. (in German) : LT in German's LibraryThing in German : Schließen der Übersetzungsfunktion? (/talktopic.php?topic=10036) (March 29, 2007). Oops !
Then again, in re i.a. xtien's "site" correction, applies :
§ This rule does not apply in cases of
§ eggregious vandalism. Vandalism is to be
§ interpreted narrowly—only intentional
§ defacement is meant. Well-meaning edits of
§ any sort (even misspellings) are not
§ vandalism.
As a matter of fact, one might question xtien's well-meaning in this matter. Have a look at the text snippet edit history (see above).
In re discussing topics and this very topic in particular, I think Translating LibraryThing? (General Talk) : stupid translation (Jun 6, 2007) is rather a good example. Anneli is pointing at a specific problem that she has got with the Finnish language translation of LT : the "site" text snippet that is used as part of "language name site (domain)" indeed.
My Message 2 is pointing her at the LT.nl solution : instead of using the language name as an adjective, which should get flection and thus is causing problems, have it as a noun and have the combinated text snippet "site" as "" (nil). It turned out that this solution is fitting in Finnish, too. Anneli has been applying it at fi.LT.
One day after, at Jun 7, 2007, I rolled back the nonsensical "correction" by ruben32 into "" as it should (see above).
Nevertheless and though it was explained in full why at LT.nl, too, the "site" text snippet should be translated into "" (blank), different avid "correctors" have been "correcting" it over and over again.
The latest "correction" is by xtien. That's quite odd, for xtien has been contributing in the aforementioned topic. Therefore, Meguess that she should have read why the "" (blank) text snippet translation in this case is a correct solution. It turns out that she couldn't care less.
I know that present avid LT.nl "correctors" and complainers are calling me a trol and are calling for harsh measures in order to ban me and what they call my "bad" and unacceptable work.
I am quite sorry that people that are not commonly using Dutch language (any more), neither want to use Dutch language (any more) for that matter, are not fluent in Dutch (any more), but cannot help this, I am afraid--whatever their complaints.
As for the edit war -- have an example with the "site" text snippet translation (see above) -- xtien might be right in part of her :
-----
§ What do we do if there's an edit war going
§ on? Like, if there's one person with too much
§ time on their hands, undoing every change
§ every other person makes.
-----
(source: xtien at Translating LibraryThing? (General Talk) : edit war, Jun 9, 2007.)
As it turns out, I have been having, as xtien says, too much time on my hands. I have been investing it in i.a. acquiring insight in the overall LT structure.
Worse : adding to this, I have been trying to explain some of the very most basic Dutch language grammar rules, in order for the avid "correctors" to understand why some of their rough "corrections" were and are unacceptable indeed. At no avail, it seems.
Different language LT editions contributors and translators seem to have thought that I had been gathering and mastering quite useful information that they could use at their profit, too. See e.g. the fi.LT example above.
Alas, LT.nl "correctors" that are ruling LT.nl now have been taking a different approach.
LibraryThing in Dutch : edres (/talktopic.php?topic=7212)
-----
§ Bij "edres" kreeg ik een spontane maagkramp.
§ Kunnen we dat niet vervangen door email
§ adres? Of desnoods alleen e-mail?
-----
(xtien at LibraryThing in Dutch : edres, Feb 3, 2007.)
-----
§ Kennelijk staat op te weinig pagina's het
§ advies om aardig te blijven. Geef een
§ vertaling toch gewoon een sof in plaats van
§ met modder te gooien.
§
§ Over sof gesproken... ik zien wel regelmatig
§ hoe vaak een vertaling lof heeft gekregen,
§ maar ik heb nog geen sof aantallen gezien,
§ alleen of ik zelf een sof heb gegeven.
-----
(jfp_k at LibraryThing in Dutch : edres, Feb 13, 2007.)
Instant translations:
-----
§ With "edres", I got spontaneous spasm of the
§ stomach. Cannot we chance it into email
§ adres ? Or if necessary just e-mail ?
-----
and:
-----
§ Obviously, too few pages are adding the
§ advise to stay polite. Better just boo a
§ translation instead of slinging mud.
§
§ Talking about boos. Most often, I can see
§ how many cheers a translation has gathered,
§ but I haven't seen any boo numbers yet, only
§ whether I booed it myself.
-----
Has anyone seen and read this ? As jfp_k -- she is using a different free LT account now -- writes : many had been cheering the LT.nl translation that was available then (Feb 2007), and no boos at all could be found.
On top of xtien being, hmm, so kind, xtien's first "correction" proposition is combining plural errors. In order for people that do not speak Dutch to understand what it is like, maybe one 'd retranslate it into English as "enameladdress" (sic) or something the like. One gets the idea. That's exactly the kind of (of course) superior language skills that xtien is so proud of.
If you think that "enameladdress" is kind of Double Dutch, you might be right.
Then again, this a perfect example of the kind of language skills of the one hurling and complaining and calling me names and calling for me to be withdrawn of by calling for banning me forever.
I think that Tim is being pulled a leg. Worse yet : I am quite sure that this is the matter.
People that do read Dutch might get more understanding of what I think that is happening with LT.nl "correctors" and complainers with e.g. J. L. Heldring's "Vreemde taal: kwaliteitsverlies" column ("Foreign language : quality loss") that has appeared in the leading Dutch quality journal NRC Handelsblad. Heldring is one of the finest, leading, most admired and most influential commentators in our language area. He is a former editor in chief of NRC Handelsblad, too.
The last part of the final paragraphs of said column reads :
-----
§ Daarmee legt de heer Jansen de vinger op een gevolg dat
§ in de discussie nog niet is gesignaleerd. Het gedwongen
§ communiceren in een taal die niet de eigen taal is, leidt,
§ ook als men die taal goed spreekt, tot een veronachtzaming
§ van nuances (en dus mogelijk tot misverstanden).
§ Belangrijker nog is dat het op den duur ook de beheersing
§ (tot in nuances) van de eigen taal moet beïnvloeden - met
§ het gevolg dat men zich in geen enkele taal kan uitdrukken
§ zoals men eigenlijk zou willen.
§
§ Het is de vraag of dat in het belang is van de organisaties
§ die het Engels als voertaal willen invoeren.
-----
(J. L. Heldring, "Vreemde taal: kwaliteitsverlies", ("Dezer dagen"), in NRC Handelsblad, 10 september 1999, final.)
Instant translation:
-----
§ In this, Mr. Janssens is pointing at a consequence that
§ hasn't been mentioned in this discussion, yet. Being
§ pressed to communicate in a foreign language, even if
§ one speaks it quite well, is leading at a disregard of
§ nuances (and thus possibly at misunderstandings.)
§ More important still is that at the end, this is to
§ influence the mastering (into the nuances) of one's
§ own language--resulting in the effect that one cannot
§ express oneself in the way as one 'd want in neither
§ language any more.
§
§ The question is whether this is in the interest of the
§ organisations that want to introduce English as their
§ medium.
-----
Whetever their hurling and complaining, etc., it turns out that the most avid "correctors" and complainers do NOT master Dutch language's even most elementary grammar, nor Dutch language orthography, neither common Dutch language vocabulary any more. This is quite a pity indeed, but it is not my fault, is it ? I cannot help their lacking skills in Dutch language. They are so proud because, whatever the reason, their language of preference is NOT Dutch. Neither do they intent to use whatever Dutch language LT edition, ever, for that matter.
Does this matter ? I think it does.
Complainers crying out loud that the words that are used in the original Dutch language edition do not figure in the Dutch language dictionaries 'd better check with the dictionaries. On top of this, they might gain in taking a crash course dealing with elementary Dutch grammar.
Of course, some might think that a coherent Dutch language edition is no good. Whatever the reason, they are killing LT.nl's coherence. Even their "corrections" are not coherent. They couldn't care less.
I wish sophies_choice good luck.
Blame me.
This is quite odd, it looks to me, because it seems or even it turns out that at Sep 30, 2006, sophies_choice didn't even know about the existence of LT.
Apart from suspensions, I understand that because of Tim's newly added LT TOS -- cf. Translating LibraryThing? (General Talk) : Translations: The Three-Times Rule (/talktopic.php?topic=17667) -- I am explicitly forbidden to roll back i.a. xtien's latest "correction" of the "site" text snippet translation.
Take e.g. the "site" text snippet, that is part of "(language name) site" on the LibraryThing in your language Zeitgeist pages. Because if the language name is used as an adjective, in Dutch (as well as in some other languages) it is to be declined, i.e. : NOT "Nederlands webstek", but "Nederlandse webstek", or better yet: "Nederlandstalige webstek" (en: "Dutch language website). There is a solution though. I have pointed translators in different languages at using this solution, too, and they have. The solution is to have "site" translated into "(blank)". This way, the translation of the combination (in full) "Dutch website (LT.nl)" will show as : "Nederlands (LT.nl)", which is expressing the correct meaning, which is clear, and which is impeccable Dutch language.
Arriving the "correctors", this is the translation history of the "site" text snippet :
-----
§ website
§ (xtien, Aug 9, 2007)
§
§ (misspipvis, Aug 8, 2007 | oogst dit)
§
§ website
§ (misspipvis, Aug 8, 2007 | oogst dit)
§
§ (boekerij, Jun 7, 2007 | oogst dit)
§
§ website
§ (ruben32, Jun 7, 2007 | oogst dit)
§
§ Home
§ (ruben32, Jun 7, 2007 | oogst dit)
§
§ (boekerij, Jun 7, 2007 | oogst dit)
§
§ Website
§ (ruben32, Mar 28, 2007 | oogst dit)
§
§ (boekerij, Mar 12, 2007 | oogst dit)
-----
(source: http://www.librarything.nl/translate.php?page=3471971737&stuff=1766001124)
It is quite clear that neither ruben32, the most avid "corrector", neither xtien, the most avid complainer, are bothering about context. They are "translating" and "correcting" in the blue--whatever the consequences. They are the best and they know it all and I, though not from Barcelona, I know nothing, I have got it wrong, by definition, and I am a troll.
Though, as I tried to explain above, the "site" text snippet was causing some problems indeed, they had been solved. Cf. my original translation dated Mar 12, 2007 (see above).
Arriving rough "corrector" ruben32, avid at "correcting" each and every text snippet that is/was having my user name stamp on it, he blindly "corrected" the "(blank)" into "Website", never minding, neither questioning nor even checking why at this very instance the "site" text snippet was translated into "(blank)". Sure enough, if one has got no context, the "(blank)" translation--or rather solution--must look quite odd. Then again, there was and is context.
By kind private notice, I had tried to point ruben32 at some problems, but at no avail. He knew it all, that was for sure, and he knew it best. My language skills, if I had got some of those, turned out to be worthless. Because ruben32 is not using LT.nl, neither, for that matter and as it appears, even checking the results of his (rough) "corrections", neither bothering whatever reasonable arguments, after having standed his crap for more than two months (Mar 28 - Jun 7) in order not to hurt anyone's most sensitive feelings and in order to provide (other) "correctors" to detect that the "correction" made no sense at all, the only possibility I got was turning back his rough "correction" indeed, returning it into "(blank)" (Jun 7). Obviously, ruben32 didn't like this. The very same day, he turned ("corrected") the text snippet into successively "Home" and "website". Sure enough, I turned it back into "(blank)" (all of this at Jun 7). The text snippet was left in peace until meddled misspipvis. At Aug 7, she turned the text snippet into "website", though obviously detecting her error at once--as it turns out, misspipvis did check the result of her "correction"--, she turned it back into "(blank)". Present "translation"/"correction" is "website", by xtien, Aug 9. She knows it best, does she?
Mind that the above is but one single example of many hundreds that are killing the (once) Dutch language edition of LT by turning into a Dutchy look.
What a misery.
Meanwhile, I had been suspended by Tim. As Tim says, touching i.a. xtien's crap would be a serious violation of LT TOS. Wow !
What's more : even after suspension time runs out, I am explicitly forbidden to put it back as it belongs. These are the consequences of Tim's (rough) "solution" as dictated in his Translating LibraryThing? (General Talk) : Translations: The Three-Times Rule (/talktopic.php?topic=17667).
I hope that Tim is quite happy that this way he is safeguarding the Dutchy edition of LT.
Congratulations !
Mind that Tim's rather mindless (sorry) instant and rough dictating his TTR "solution" will cause problems with different language LT editions, too. Take e.g. (in German) : LT in German's LibraryThing in German : Schließen der Übersetzungsfunktion? (/talktopic.php?topic=10036) (March 29, 2007). Oops !
Then again, in re i.a. xtien's "site" correction, applies :
§ This rule does not apply in cases of
§ eggregious vandalism. Vandalism is to be
§ interpreted narrowly—only intentional
§ defacement is meant. Well-meaning edits of
§ any sort (even misspellings) are not
§ vandalism.
As a matter of fact, one might question xtien's well-meaning in this matter. Have a look at the text snippet edit history (see above).
In re discussing topics and this very topic in particular, I think Translating LibraryThing? (General Talk) : stupid translation (Jun 6, 2007) is rather a good example. Anneli is pointing at a specific problem that she has got with the Finnish language translation of LT : the "site" text snippet that is used as part of "language name site (domain)" indeed.
My Message 2 is pointing her at the LT.nl solution : instead of using the language name as an adjective, which should get flection and thus is causing problems, have it as a noun and have the combinated text snippet "site" as "" (nil). It turned out that this solution is fitting in Finnish, too. Anneli has been applying it at fi.LT.
One day after, at Jun 7, 2007, I rolled back the nonsensical "correction" by ruben32 into "" as it should (see above).
Nevertheless and though it was explained in full why at LT.nl, too, the "site" text snippet should be translated into "" (blank), different avid "correctors" have been "correcting" it over and over again.
The latest "correction" is by xtien. That's quite odd, for xtien has been contributing in the aforementioned topic. Therefore, Meguess that she should have read why the "" (blank) text snippet translation in this case is a correct solution. It turns out that she couldn't care less.
I know that present avid LT.nl "correctors" and complainers are calling me a trol and are calling for harsh measures in order to ban me and what they call my "bad" and unacceptable work.
I am quite sorry that people that are not commonly using Dutch language (any more), neither want to use Dutch language (any more) for that matter, are not fluent in Dutch (any more), but cannot help this, I am afraid--whatever their complaints.
As for the edit war -- have an example with the "site" text snippet translation (see above) -- xtien might be right in part of her :
-----
§ What do we do if there's an edit war going
§ on? Like, if there's one person with too much
§ time on their hands, undoing every change
§ every other person makes.
-----
(source: xtien at Translating LibraryThing? (General Talk) : edit war, Jun 9, 2007.)
As it turns out, I have been having, as xtien says, too much time on my hands. I have been investing it in i.a. acquiring insight in the overall LT structure.
Worse : adding to this, I have been trying to explain some of the very most basic Dutch language grammar rules, in order for the avid "correctors" to understand why some of their rough "corrections" were and are unacceptable indeed. At no avail, it seems.
Different language LT editions contributors and translators seem to have thought that I had been gathering and mastering quite useful information that they could use at their profit, too. See e.g. the fi.LT example above.
Alas, LT.nl "correctors" that are ruling LT.nl now have been taking a different approach.
LibraryThing in Dutch : edres (/talktopic.php?topic=7212)
-----
§ Bij "edres" kreeg ik een spontane maagkramp.
§ Kunnen we dat niet vervangen door email
§ adres? Of desnoods alleen e-mail?
-----
(xtien at LibraryThing in Dutch : edres, Feb 3, 2007.)
-----
§ Kennelijk staat op te weinig pagina's het
§ advies om aardig te blijven. Geef een
§ vertaling toch gewoon een sof in plaats van
§ met modder te gooien.
§
§ Over sof gesproken... ik zien wel regelmatig
§ hoe vaak een vertaling lof heeft gekregen,
§ maar ik heb nog geen sof aantallen gezien,
§ alleen of ik zelf een sof heb gegeven.
-----
(jfp_k at LibraryThing in Dutch : edres, Feb 13, 2007.)
Instant translations:
-----
§ With "edres", I got spontaneous spasm of the
§ stomach. Cannot we chance it into email
§ adres ? Or if necessary just e-mail ?
-----
and:
-----
§ Obviously, too few pages are adding the
§ advise to stay polite. Better just boo a
§ translation instead of slinging mud.
§
§ Talking about boos. Most often, I can see
§ how many cheers a translation has gathered,
§ but I haven't seen any boo numbers yet, only
§ whether I booed it myself.
-----
Has anyone seen and read this ? As jfp_k -- she is using a different free LT account now -- writes : many had been cheering the LT.nl translation that was available then (Feb 2007), and no boos at all could be found.
On top of xtien being, hmm, so kind, xtien's first "correction" proposition is combining plural errors. In order for people that do not speak Dutch to understand what it is like, maybe one 'd retranslate it into English as "enameladdress" (sic) or something the like. One gets the idea. That's exactly the kind of (of course) superior language skills that xtien is so proud of.
If you think that "enameladdress" is kind of Double Dutch, you might be right.
Then again, this a perfect example of the kind of language skills of the one hurling and complaining and calling me names and calling for me to be withdrawn of by calling for banning me forever.
I think that Tim is being pulled a leg. Worse yet : I am quite sure that this is the matter.
People that do read Dutch might get more understanding of what I think that is happening with LT.nl "correctors" and complainers with e.g. J. L. Heldring's "Vreemde taal: kwaliteitsverlies" column ("Foreign language : quality loss") that has appeared in the leading Dutch quality journal NRC Handelsblad. Heldring is one of the finest, leading, most admired and most influential commentators in our language area. He is a former editor in chief of NRC Handelsblad, too.
The last part of the final paragraphs of said column reads :
-----
§ Daarmee legt de heer Jansen de vinger op een gevolg dat
§ in de discussie nog niet is gesignaleerd. Het gedwongen
§ communiceren in een taal die niet de eigen taal is, leidt,
§ ook als men die taal goed spreekt, tot een veronachtzaming
§ van nuances (en dus mogelijk tot misverstanden).
§ Belangrijker nog is dat het op den duur ook de beheersing
§ (tot in nuances) van de eigen taal moet beïnvloeden - met
§ het gevolg dat men zich in geen enkele taal kan uitdrukken
§ zoals men eigenlijk zou willen.
§
§ Het is de vraag of dat in het belang is van de organisaties
§ die het Engels als voertaal willen invoeren.
-----
(J. L. Heldring, "Vreemde taal: kwaliteitsverlies", ("Dezer dagen"), in NRC Handelsblad, 10 september 1999, final.)
Instant translation:
-----
§ In this, Mr. Janssens is pointing at a consequence that
§ hasn't been mentioned in this discussion, yet. Being
§ pressed to communicate in a foreign language, even if
§ one speaks it quite well, is leading at a disregard of
§ nuances (and thus possibly at misunderstandings.)
§ More important still is that at the end, this is to
§ influence the mastering (into the nuances) of one's
§ own language--resulting in the effect that one cannot
§ express oneself in the way as one 'd want in neither
§ language any more.
§
§ The question is whether this is in the interest of the
§ organisations that want to introduce English as their
§ medium.
-----
Whetever their hurling and complaining, etc., it turns out that the most avid "correctors" and complainers do NOT master Dutch language's even most elementary grammar, nor Dutch language orthography, neither common Dutch language vocabulary any more. This is quite a pity indeed, but it is not my fault, is it ? I cannot help their lacking skills in Dutch language. They are so proud because, whatever the reason, their language of preference is NOT Dutch. Neither do they intent to use whatever Dutch language LT edition, ever, for that matter.
Does this matter ? I think it does.
Complainers crying out loud that the words that are used in the original Dutch language edition do not figure in the Dutch language dictionaries 'd better check with the dictionaries. On top of this, they might gain in taking a crash course dealing with elementary Dutch grammar.
Of course, some might think that a coherent Dutch language edition is no good. Whatever the reason, they are killing LT.nl's coherence. Even their "corrections" are not coherent. They couldn't care less.
I wish sophies_choice good luck.
Blame me.
9VisibleGhost
Ya know, I just might have to learn Dutch just so I can keep up with this controversy.
10timspalding
>This is quite odd, it looks to me, because it seems or even it turns out that at Sep 30, 2006, sophies_choice didn't even know about the existence of LT.
As stated, Sophie has no powers other than the power to rewrite the group description. She has no extra powers in the translation field or anywhere else! I specifically stated that so you can cite this if anyone ever tries to make her queen. I gave her the job because she frickin' raised her HAND first!
A more typical example of a translation would be the one for "Talk." It has 29 changes; 13 of those were you changing it to "Praat." Five different users tried to change it to "Discussie." A total of seven users tried out translations, including some other options. Every time they did, you slapped them down—Praat, Praat, Praat.
I'm sorry, but all evidence points to one conclusion. In your eyes, you're just right. You don't see a duty to hash things out in a social way. I'm sorry, but this is a social site, and while you can be a member of the society you cannot continually act against it. Your authority to change things must be based on respect for others.
Persuasion is a sort of respect. You ARE showing some of that. But ten-page rants are not going to persuade anyone.
As stated, Sophie has no powers other than the power to rewrite the group description. She has no extra powers in the translation field or anywhere else! I specifically stated that so you can cite this if anyone ever tries to make her queen. I gave her the job because she frickin' raised her HAND first!
A more typical example of a translation would be the one for "Talk." It has 29 changes; 13 of those were you changing it to "Praat." Five different users tried to change it to "Discussie." A total of seven users tried out translations, including some other options. Every time they did, you slapped them down—Praat, Praat, Praat.
I'm sorry, but all evidence points to one conclusion. In your eyes, you're just right. You don't see a duty to hash things out in a social way. I'm sorry, but this is a social site, and while you can be a member of the society you cannot continually act against it. Your authority to change things must be based on respect for others.
Persuasion is a sort of respect. You ARE showing some of that. But ten-page rants are not going to persuade anyone.
11xtien
This is quite odd
Very odd indeed. The founder of LT asks for a volunteer, and someone raises their hand, and they get the job because they were in fact the only one raising their hand. That's odd, isn't it?
You know, I think that LT in general and Tim in particular have shown extreme patience with regard to some people. Out of respect, they didn't want to ban or remove people. Out of decency, everyone gets a shot at translating and helping out. Even the obnoxious, they get the benefit of the doubt. I admire Tim and his staff for the way they manage LT smoothly and generously. They listen to all of us, we all get a chance of suggesting improvments, we all get to get our say, they work around the clock to make LT a place for all of us.
Tim, I think I speak on behalf of the Dutch LT community when I say that we love the way you made lt.nl possible and the way you promoted it. Thanks!
sophies_choice, as I've said before, thanks for taking responsibility and help out.
Very odd indeed. The founder of LT asks for a volunteer, and someone raises their hand, and they get the job because they were in fact the only one raising their hand. That's odd, isn't it?
You know, I think that LT in general and Tim in particular have shown extreme patience with regard to some people. Out of respect, they didn't want to ban or remove people. Out of decency, everyone gets a shot at translating and helping out. Even the obnoxious, they get the benefit of the doubt. I admire Tim and his staff for the way they manage LT smoothly and generously. They listen to all of us, we all get a chance of suggesting improvments, we all get to get our say, they work around the clock to make LT a place for all of us.
Tim, I think I speak on behalf of the Dutch LT community when I say that we love the way you made lt.nl possible and the way you promoted it. Thanks!
sophies_choice, as I've said before, thanks for taking responsibility and help out.
12Guusius
Although I haven´t been a LT-member for long, I have been reading a lot of subjects on the LT-forum to know what´s going on. I completely agree with Tim that this is a social site. That means being a member requires having respect for other people´s opinion. Slapping down other people´s suggestions to force your opinion upon them is not very social.
Maybe I´m out of line here, and if I am, I´m sorry, but boekerij´s way of criticizing Tim´s decision to appoint Sophie as group steward seems to me a reaction of a small child that doesn´t get it´s way. Maybe you could help her instead of questioning the reason for appointing her. That would be a lot more mature.
I agree with xtien: I think the way Tim made this website possible and promoted it deserves respect. Another big ´thanks´ from me!
Maybe I´m out of line here, and if I am, I´m sorry, but boekerij´s way of criticizing Tim´s decision to appoint Sophie as group steward seems to me a reaction of a small child that doesn´t get it´s way. Maybe you could help her instead of questioning the reason for appointing her. That would be a lot more mature.
I agree with xtien: I think the way Tim made this website possible and promoted it deserves respect. Another big ´thanks´ from me!
13boektrust
Tim asked for suggestions for a Dutch name for LT: what do you think of BB - BiblioBling?
It is both Dutch, international and almost poetry.
(For Bling Bling see wikipedia and Van Dale)
It is both Dutch, international and almost poetry.
(For Bling Bling see wikipedia and Van Dale)
15royalhistorian
I would like to keep the group name standard. Other language-groups are similar named. I only changed it into Dutch.
And for people with questions and such this group name is clear and easy to understand.
And for people with questions and such this group name is clear and easy to understand.
16timspalding
By the way, the URL for the group has to stay "librarythingindutch." We don't change the base URL so as not to confuse Google. They're so easily confused!
