OT: Abebooks rant

So, what do people here think of Abebooks? Are the "savings" worth it? From what I've seen, it's a little cheaper than Ebay or Amazon, but not by much. Personally, I think it's horrible. No feedback system. Rude sellers. Outright fraud.

For example, I just had a guy mark my books as "shipped," then two weeks later he replies to my inquiry
and says he never even found them in the warehouse. He then "refunds" my cost, but keeps the shipping.
Unfortunately, not the first time that kind of thing has happened. Abebooks customer service
is a joke, so they aren't helping much.

Sorry to hear of your bad experience. I don't find that volumes listed on abebooks are cheaper than those on eBay or Amazon. Abebooks is my least favourite secondary market website, precisely because of the lack of feedback system and frequently poor responsiveness on the part of sellers. Also, too many listings carry unrepresentative 'stock' images which are often not even the same edition, let alone the same copy, as the book actually being offered.

In the circumstances you describe, the seller ought to be legally obliged to refund your entire cost including the shipping charge.

I use abebooks quite regularly, but am careful with the book sellers, tending to only use those with an established shop or reputation through another source. So far, fingers crossed, I've not had a problem, and hae had mostly very good service. I did have a wee issue recently with one who had not included the fact that the book was ex-library in the description (it was still one of the cheaper options of a difficult to get hold of book), but as soon as I wrote to express disappointment (and it was just that, as the price was still acceptable), they refunded me some of the price, to make it very reasonable.

I do think it should have proper feedback though, I agree.

Abebooks customer service is non-existent. I have pointed out and documented to them several fraudulent sellers using Abebooks to scam people and they consistently ignore this information, always siding with the seller. They are not interested in protecting your interests, they are only interested in maintaining large bookseller accounts and making profits.

Follow Willoyd's advice - namely, only deal with booksellers that have flawless reputations and a long-established history of accurate descriptions of their books and fine customer service.

One additional comment: there are few, if any, bargains on either eBay or Abebooks. However, both sites are rife with booksellers that are asking egregious prices and eBay is far worse than Abebooks in this regard. eBay has a large number of mom-and-pop sellers that buy their books at garage sales and then charge ridiculous prices because this is their primary source of income. You MUST do your own homework and determine what a fair price is for the book you are looking for.

Caveat emptor.

Abebooks is owned by Amazon...
http://realitystudio.org/bibliographic-bunker/abebooks-sucks/comment-page-1/

I do like the strength and flexibility of their search engine.

As known, it also takes time to confirm the deal you have made through abe. In the meantime it could sell at ebay even if the buyer comes after you. Could be irritating.

I have used abebooks much in the past (not the last 1,5 years) and will use them again if i really really want something, but usually i find the same wants elsewhere .. so why bother, i think that sums it up for me

I use ardis or ebay for FS books (or of course FS itself most of the time) i don`t have any specific data on it right now, but ardis seem to have become more expensive .. maybe its just me .. well, we all need our earnings and no big thingy, i just wanted to note it, if somebody else have cared to recognize the same, and it` a generalization i know, it would depend on the book, and the title of course

>5 Crypto-Willobie:

That is another good point. It's not like you are supporting an independent business either. You're just supporting Amazon
without receiving any of the Amazon perks in return.

From the selling side, I tried using Abebooks a few years ago to sell some stuff. Their seller tools were unusable. Horrible desktop UI.

If Biblio.com could improve their search engine, would probably switch there. Unfortunately, their keywords search is just broken.

>1 MobyRichard:

I'm not clear on whether this incident is typical of your Abebooks experience or a first?

Abebooks is my main source for used books online and has been since they started. I don't use Ebay and I hate Amazon (despite using it quite a bit for new stuff). I'd say Amazon Marketplace is the worst platform for used books of all I've tried. My experience with Abe is so far overwhelmingly positive--the worst that has happened is two lost shipments (presumably not the fault of the sellers and certainly not of Abebooks), the costs of which were refunded in full promptly through Abe's feedback system without my having to contact the sellers at all.

I'm a little confused about why you say there is no feedback system as there's a menu of options to report problems with orders? Maybe returns are more problematic, I've never had to do one.

The sellers are graded based on percentage fulfilled orders. I never order from anyone with less than 4 stars and usually only from the 5-star ones. If the item is very expensive I take a closer look at the seller, how long they have been there, how large and of what type is their inventory, whether they have an online or brick & mortar presence etc. (For some things such as the LEC Shakespeare set I arranged for the sale off Abebooks.)

I can't really speak to the quality of customer service compared to other places as the few times I contacted them it took only a few e-mails to sort out problems... and I vaguely remember having once had a phone conversation with a real live employee, although I couldn't tell you now how I even found a phone number.

There seems to exist a general trend to curtail customer service, especially the phone contacts, to the point that companies are hiding means to do so if they even still have them. Just a few weeks ago I had to google how to let Amazon UK know that a shipment didn't arrive...

When I have the option, I buy from Biblio. Between Biblio's Advanced Search and AddALL.com's meta-search, I don't seem to have trouble locating what I want.

>9 cpg: (OT) I never heard of Addall.com, just fidgeted around with it a little. Very useful website at first sight. Thanks for the tip!

>2 cronshaw: In the circumstances you describe, the seller ought to be legally obliged to refund your entire cost including the shipping charge.

That's what they promise on the website. I'm in the process of testing it as I received a damaged book yesterday and so far the seller has offered a 25% reduction. I've told him I don't want the book and am looking for a full refund, including return costs of p&p. No response to that yet, after 24 hours. Maybe I get to assess Abe's fabled customer service as well.

In the meantime I've ordered the book from Ardis. About 25% more expensive but at least with Ardis you know exactly what you're getting.

Their glassdoor reviews are interesting:

https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Abebooks-Reviews-E12140.htm

I'm a coder, and I can tell exactly how bad the company is from the comments left by former employees. Interesting comparison for
those who think Folio Society has a primitive website.

>8 LolaWalser:

Typical. I don't blame Abebooks for every bad seller, but they've never helped me when I encounter one. They take forever
to respond. I can rarely even get a customer service rep to respond to my specific concern. Just canned responses.

I'm not saying other companies don't have customer service issues, but the lack of a feedback system means
you can't even warn other people.

I forgot to say that this particular seller lied and said I requested a return. What I requested was that he actually find
the books and ship them to me. I'm assuming he lied to avoid being dinged for a return.

My experience with AbeBooks has been, overall, good. However, it's essential to ask sellers for a) photos/additional photos b) how they package for shipment c) verify shipping charges as the default price is often wrong and you'll wind up with requests for increased charges.

It might not be a bad idea to have a thread here compiling a list of sellers that have been found reliable and by that same token those that have been found to be less so.

Lately I buy more books through Abe than, probably, all other channels put together - around 50 so far this year - and I couldn't be much happier than I am with the service. One or two of the books I ordered turned out to have been sold already, a very few were significantly disappointing with regard to condition, while the condition of rather more was surprisingly good. I can't remember ever asking for a photo. I've certainly learned that shipments for example from the USA (I'm in the UK), at least for books heavier than the average hardback, bring requests for extra charges that would be prohibitive in most cases, so I only bother placing orders for large or multiple volumes from across the Atlantic if I'm ready to take such charges on board.

I expect the nature of the books we buy has much to do with our liking or disliking a particular source. I'm usually looking for decent or better copies of scarce texts or small editions from long ago, and searching Amazon for such things is wearisome in the extreme. I'm often disposed to try Ardis first for my relatively few used Folio purchases.

I've used them sparingly in the past. But thanks for the news that Amazon owns them (DOH!). I guess somehow I missed that 10 year old news.
I don't buy from Amazon, so no more Abebooks for me. I'm still mourning Whole Foods but I'll get over it. I suppose pretty soon they'll own the world and I won't be able to buy anything. I'll have so much discretionary income and too much discretion to spend it. Vote every day with your $$. 8/

I prefer Abe over Amazon and eBay. I find the least amount of information when buying used books through Amazon and I'm often worried (due to bad prior experiences) that the seller will ship the right title but an entirely different publisher.

Most books I see on eBay can be had for a lot less money elsewhere. Occasionally, I'll pick something up with a more reasonable "make an offer" bid. I don't think much of the feedback mechanism on eBay because most sellers won't rank the buyer until you rank them and if you give them a bad review they'll give you a bad review.

I buy a lot of books, particularly LECs on Abe but I buy from relatively few book sellers who I trust and have dealt with previously. Some will give you better prices if you buy off of their private website. Recently, I bought a book from a new dealer (to me) who noted my purchase and mentioned that they had quite a few LECs which he would sell to me with a 30% discount (thus my recent batch of September LEC purchases). If the prices are the same on the website and Abe I buy off of Abe because I get a 2% rebate through ebates.com (I don't have anything to do with this company and I'm not pushing anything) when I buy books on Abe. For the most part, I've had good luck with my Abe purchases. When I've not gotten the book or the book was wrong or in worse shape than advertised, I've always gotten a full rebate from the seller.

>16 jveezer: Doesn't Amazon own LibraryThing (through its purchase of Abe) or at least a major share (40%)?

I just have to point out i were "tricked" on the last buy of mine, with a bumpy Illiad slipcase, wrote with a seller back and forth using superlatives `you will love it` ect .. this was back in the day i brushed books in quickly. The book even came with a `thank you` note with some more words scribled on it. Which makes it a little funny to look back at now, though irritating then. These `notes` bytheway show up from time to time via abebooksellers, that and bookmarks. For all it`s worth, that`s nice.

Therefore my mind is a little painted `cause of the case of the Illiad, black probably. That and i am still waiting for `Monks of war` which i ordered in 2014 .. i used abebooks.com for starters, `till i found out there was a UK site (more sober trading alternatives for me living where i live)

Anyway, nothing more to say, other than if you search for a book, and find a book, and decide you want the book, ABE is not more horrendous than others i believe

*The seller mentioned, is listed in my metaphoric black book

>18 kdweber: kdweber; Haha. I didn't know about Amazon's stake in LibraryThing either! (http://www.librarything.com/topic/152033) Thanks for pointing that out. But my first reaction is that's a tad different. I have to read the whole thread I just referenced now but they are a minority (but major) shareholder AND I'm not necessarily giving them MY $$ since this is not a direct ecommerce platform. I don't even know if Amazon had their share when I paid my lifetime membership back in 2006. As I said, their massive growth makes it hard to keep my money away from them but I'll keep on keeping on...

That would definitely test my resolve if I felt I had to give LibraryThing up! I live on it...

I use ABE for its search, which I find goes deeper than other sites. (And you can use "quotes" to get exact phrases and NOT to sort ebooks out of your search.) Once I've found what I'm looking for I go and locate tha same copy on Biblio or Alibris or eBay (or sometimes even Amazon if it's cheaper there) -- and almost always find it.

As to LT, the pre-Amazon owners of ABE bought into LT as an investment. It was when Amazon later bought ABE that they got a piece of LT -- nothing LT could do about it. But Tim swears he will never relinquish his majority stake, so LT will never be a mere creature of Amazon..

>1 MobyRichard:

Speaking from personal experience, some of the vendors I have come across on Abe are absolute con artists.

Worse still, is the sham of any real protections from Abe.

Unless you do your research and can trust the vendor I would recommend ebay over Abe any time.

I tend to have good luck with Abe when my expectations are lower. They've been really good to me for reference and textbooks, rare and current, but only fair-to-good for nice or fine books.

I tend not to seek out FS/LEC/EP/FL/CP/etc books from them simply because the odds of seeing even one picture, stock or otherwise, has been about 1 in 1,000. The odds of seeing a useful number of good pictures is closer to 1 in 1,000,000. Pictures are absolutely essential given how many editions and variations there can be for any given book, nevermind questions of condition, especially when the description is inadequate or inconsistent. I shouldn't have to ask the seller to post a picture...this is the internet, not a newspaper.

Ok, maybe my numbers are a little exaggerated but not by much.

I have had excellent results with the ABE Booksellers. I have found every book I was looking for so far on that site. I tend to want things that are out of print and I just have not been able to find the books I want at other sites. I have never had a problem with fraud. Most of my purchases have been from the UK and it does take slightly longer but the sellers respond quickly and send me an order confirmation e-mail and another when they have shipped the book.I think considering that it is overseas I have received the books ordered quite quickly. The ones in the United States seem to get here really quickly. I have received books the second day from the states sometimes. I have not been disappointed in the condition either. Once I received a new bookafter ordering and paying for a used book.

I must have bought hundreds of books on Abe and have not had any bad experiences. I quite often ask for photos first and most sellers are quite happy to provide them. I've returned a couple of items because I wasn't happy with the books vs. description and I've got my full money back with no quibble. There have been one or two cases over the years where the seller had sold elsewhere or "couldn't find it" and one experience recently when a seller sent me volume 1 only of a 2-volume set. However, in the latter case, a quick email elicited an immediate apology and I received the missing volume first thing the next day. Occasionally, for expensive books, I've contacted the seller through Abe and arranged instalments outside the system. This is, of course, potentially hazardous if not downright disastrous, but in these cases I always did some research first to establish the credentials of the sellers I was dealing with. Most of them have been recognised dealers with reputations and proper shop premises and all such transactions have concluded successfully. My most expensive purchase ever, the Isham/Bruce Rogers Boswell Private Papers limited edition set, was successfully negotiated through Abe.

It can be bad that there's not feedback by the buyer but only a success ration based on whether or not the seller actually ships the book and doesn't have it returned. You can also be in for unpleasant surprised since the sellers can change the shipping fee after the purchase. Some do, some don't. That being said: Most of my experiences with abebooks have been positive, there are mostly professional and usually honest sellers there. I've had more problems on amazon marketplace or ebay (lots of unprofessional sellers and very creative descriptions of the condition), and the prices are often better, too. In one unpleasant case, customer service helped resolve the problem and gave me a full refund. Abebooks often have rare things you don't find elsewhere. So they're definitely in my list of websites I turn to for used books. I do think that for some collector's items, their prices tend to go over the top, since one seller pushed the other higher and so on.

A bit disturbing to learn that Amazon has any kind of stake in LibraryThing but I guess how could they not?
One day I'll wake and find that Amazon owns a 1/3rd stake in my right kidney.

>27 MobyRichard: They'd want to take over the left one first to make sure it doesn't set up a Union.

>28 cronshaw: Brilliant! That's all I want to say.
Oh, and amazon marketplace is terrible for buying books.

I've bought lots of books via Abe and generally the experience has been ok. I've baulked at some of the 'extra postage charges' and cancelled orders but generally there hasn't been a problem. That is, until about a month ago, when I bought four books off a seller who described them as 'as new'. When they arrived they looked like they'd been kicked around a football field and the pages were tanned. When I complained about his description he took umbrage, saying that my expectations were far too high as I was clearly expecting mint.

ABE has by far the best search engine when it comes to secondhand books. You can narrow the search down by date range, identify first editions (if that matters to you), find signed copies, copies with dustwrappers, and distinguish between hardbacks and softcovers, far better than you can on any other site. Best of all, the search engine does not suppress certain copies (a major problem on Amazon, and a lesser one on Alibris).

Biblio is really just ABE in miniature; you will find yourself experiencing the same problems, but the overall choice of books is smaller.

You do have an automatic right of return on ABE - the problem is that you have to decide whether to use a tracked method of return. If you do, you may not get the full cost of the postage back, whereas if you don't the seller has the ability to cancel the return. I have had occasions where I have returned a book using regular postage and the seller has claimed non-arrival, but this has only happened when the seller was a megaseller (these people can be identified by minimal book descriptions).

>27 MobyRichard:

One day I'll wake and find that Amazon owns a 1/3rd stake in my right kidney.

Shouldn't that be...

One day I'll wake and find that Amazon owns a 1/3rd steak n' my right kidney.

;-)

>32 LesMiserables:

I hear they like them rare...

Or perhaps I'm just a fragile vampire.

>29 elladan0891:

I find Amazon marketplace good most of the time. I'm not looking forward to the future online sales tax legislation though.

May be controversial here, as I recall I've read some less than complimentary comments about them on this forum , but I have started (past 18 months or so) to buy a few second hand Folios from World of Rare Books. About three times a year they have a sale which improves the more you spend , culminating in 40% off if you spend >£100. They also always have free postage (in the UK), so I invariably end up spending £60-£65 total for 5-6 (older) folios and 5-6 (ancient) LPs. The books have nearly all been of very good quality, the vinyl is very hit and miss , but they have a decent selection and the customer service is responsive. And at those prices...
I don't think I've ever bought from Abe

>34 MobyRichard:
My only success buying Folios from amazon marketplace was when the book was explicitly described as new in shrink wrap. But after a few successive times ordering either "new" or "fine" Folios and receiving books with bookplates, foxing, and plenty of binding rubbing, I gave up. Perhaps I was extremely unlucky, but 1 out 4 success rate was way too lousy to give amazon marketplace another chance.

> 36 elladan0891

That was unlucky, I'd say. These things happen, I got a damaged 'fine' book from Ardis, for example, and the supposedly 'fine' replacement was even worse. I know they're usually reliable, so this was really rotten luck. With regard to amazon marketplace, I got several really good Folios from there, but also a supposedly 'like new' book set with stained books and a torn up slipcase. When I returned it to the seller, he promptly relisted it with the same description of its condition. Amazon did nothing about it when I informed them about this either. I'd say it's the same with abebooks, ebay, amazon marketplace... There are a lot of honest and some dishonest sellers on all of them. It can help to contact sellers before buying, but even then you might be in for an unpleasant surprise. In the case of amazon and ebay, the sellers at least can't raise the shipping fee after you've bought the book.

>35 tarangurgi:

World of Rare Books is one of many many vendors that sells thru ABE:
https://www.abebooks.com/world-of-rare-books-goring-by-sea/54140959/sf

Overall I'd say there many more amateur sellers on Amazon, and more professional sellers on ABE. You just have to be able to suss out which are which.

>36 elladan0891:

That's very much like my experience with them. Note, regarding used books specifically--I buy DVDs and CDs from Marketplace sellers fairly often and have no complaints there (actually, I tend to buy from just a handful sellers I've bought from before, all of whom are highly rated.)

With the books I've had all kinds of mishaps--in fact, I don't think a single transaction was wholly satisfactory. In two cases they sent me different editions (different publishers) to what had been advertised, in another two the condition was ridiculously unlike the one originally given, once I got a totally different book, no connection to what I ordered whatsoever, not in topic, author, genre... anything that might make sense of the error, and in one (maybe the oddest) the seller contacted me some weeks after I had received the book saying they had mispriced the book and that I ought to pay more. (Lest anyone think I got away with some pirate's treasure, the book was a 1950s Simon & Schuster Pogo paperback, not even a first printing--can't check right now--if anyone normal would even care about that for that title.) I had paid around USD 16 with shipping; they were asking for a hundred dollars more. One for the after-dinner stories.

Anyway, I think that was the last time I bought a book through Marketplace. Given that there are many large outlets who sell books on it I wouldn't necessarily dismiss it for those who buy current paperbacks and similar, there's probably little harm in getting The talented Mr. Ripley described as USED: VERY GOOD from Powell's on it. But for anything more complicated, expensive, old, rare etc. eh, I'd say no.

>38 Crypto-Willobie:, interesting, thanks . They seem to be somewhat boutique and ramshackle (in a good and bad way) compared to the giant of Abe however. When I have had to question something, the same name answers my emails, next day, so their customer service is much more responsive, from what I read here. At least it's signed with the same name. The packaging is sparse but I've not noticed any damge from transit.

I've had consistently bad luck at all sales venues, say an 80% completion rate-ebay abe biblio amazon ilab antiqbook alibris- that began many years ago and continues to this day. A 100 ebayer stated mint, had pictures, first thing I saw unpacking were 3 dime sized purple spots on the red cloth front board, 3 other faults followed, unbelievable, just coupla months ago. I used to email to confirm condition, sometimes it works and, unbelievably, sometimes it doesn't.

It bugs me that sellers think that because items can be returned there's no problem with sending an undescribed damaged book. I hate returns, the time and gas I don't get refunded. I tried to bill a coupla sellers for what I considered a complete refund based on my hourly wage, gas, insurance, wear and tear...and I received no reply. Maybe that's OT but it's related.

I've attempted Sherlockian deductions to try to explain seemingly incomprehensible misdescriptions, e.g. a seller on amazon from UK sold a fine Folio Press Robert Graves Poems, $30 w/shipping, wrote to verify no smells, as some recent purchases stunk of wet or smoke, and seller nicely said fine, he read it once and it had been in the bookcase since. Got it, wrappings smelt OK, opened book to a wave of tobacco, notified stupefied seller, assured him I wasn't playing, refunded 10 bucks-no returns to UK-and the image that hits me is an overnite guest who, unable to sleep, stops, picks a book and smokes a butt, blowing some smoke right into the page while the outside is protected, returns Graves and seller unaware. I emailed another seller to verify smells and condition, ilab- top of the line-very important to get right, expensive elephant folio, happy return email assuring me of wonderful condition, a bit o wear to the slipcase, i'm happy, get it and...peanut butter cheese cracker crumbs in the gutters of several pages, broken tip of pencil too, some pencil marks, torn tissue plate protectors, and heavy paper bent by rough page turning...again totally lost seller, said I'd send it back agh! or take a big discount which we compromised...And I totally believe the seller, I think he verified the book, left it overnight, and the grandkids found it and thought it was the biggest neatest book they had ever seen munch munch munch look at the pitchers turn the page!

At times I'm sure it's simple human error, and it's nice when the seller is bothered and wants to make it right. Some sellers send damaged books and then become irate when you inform them. Some sellers have 60 year old books in perfect condition that they ship in mailers.

Anyway, Abe has come thru for me twice to force refund for books that did not arrive, that's good. Otherwise, I wish Abe and everybody else would push for stricter controls and better selling education for booksellers about descriptions, description language and picture taking, and safe shipping procedures.

>42 olepuppy: 80% dissatisfaction rate at all sales venues will probably turn me away from book collecting. I feel that stricter control implies that Abe (and others) have to hire more people to enforce it, which does not reflect good on the bottom line. I wonder if mentioning the Better Business Bureau in complains to eBay, Abe and Amazon would help. And in closing to answer the original question: I have had tremendous success purchasing from Abe in the past couple of years. Aside from the occasional mailer most recently for the LEC Through The Looking Glass (alas no damage) can't thing of any complains.

>43 BuzzBuzzard: When I stated 80% completion I meant 1 of 5 transactions had problems, is that what you mean by 80% dissatisfaction? I have suggested to Abe and ebay that sellers need better info on how to describe and ship. And I've had professional booksellers put a $400 book ina too big box with no filler and ship from UK, and a autograph specialist from California state that the book was signed by George Macy when it wasn't, oops, send it back. I really think I'm just the lemon end while others are golden, and it all averages out in the wash.

>44 olepuppy: I read it as if 4 out of 5 transactions were problematic. A proper packaging can be problematic though. Many people don't have the art of doing it right. To share a happy story contrasting to yours a couple of years ago I bought the quite heavy Don Quixote (earlier LEC version) set. Books in beautiful condition lacking the case. To my kindly inquiry about adequate wrapping/boxing etc. the seller responded that the package will withstand a nuclear blast. Indeed it would have. I regret that I did not take pictures! Phenomenal packaging, which sadly is a rare art among sellers.

>45 BuzzBuzzard: Not to 1 up, but I know what you mean, I bought the same set w/ case plus the Vasari lives from an antique dealer in Arizona, I'm eastcoast, who simply used an oversized carton and crammed it with balled newsprint on all sides including the bottom. For some the cost of materials is important, but free newspapers are an easy fix, just wrap the books with clean paper. I worked for a moving company in the 70's, and whether in a small carton or a large storage container, shifting goods meant breakage.

>36 elladan0891:

I would avoid all listings that don't describe the book in detail. Amazon does have a lot of big sellers who just throw stuff up onto the site
without even double-checking what they are selling.

Regarding Alibris: My order that arrived from them today confirmed what I had long suspected: They do not know the meaning of the phrases "sewn binding" and "cloth over boards". For such a large retailer, this ignorance is disturbing.

>48 cpg: Alibris qua Alibris does sell some titles, mostly pod reprints; but almost all the books you get from Alibris are from individual sellers, the same sellers you encounter on eBay, Amazon, ABE, Biblio, etc. Some are good, some suck. Some know what a sewn binding is, some don't. Nothing to do with Alibris as a selling platform.

>49 Crypto-Willobie:

It's Alibris qua Alibris that is clueless:

>50 cpg:

Let me add that this is not a one-off mistake. Go to Springer.com and pick any of their thousands of titles that have been published in, say, the last 10 years, and then look up that title on Alibris.com. If it's a hardcover, Alibris will probably have it (as the seller) listed as "Sewn binding. Cloth over boards.". But Springer does not use cloth covers and practically never uses sewn bindings anymore. Alibris seems to think that "Sewn binding. Cloth over boards." is a synonym for "hardback".

>50 cpg: >51 cpg:
Ah, clearly you are correct. I've never encountered that because I've never bought any Springer (or the like) from Alibris -- only third party stuff and obvious paperback pods.

I've bought 15 books from abe over the last few years without any issues, including a few folios and some imports from USA. I only ever buy books with seller supplied images, not stock photos, and look for sellers providing detailed descriptions of book condition, as opposed to just stating the condition.

That's really strange that you guys have had such bad experiences through Abebooks customer service. I've had some problems with sellers before (mostly the book not arriving in the stated condition) but after calling abebooks everything was taken care. Their customer service has been awesome. I'm curious... for the people who've had issues with Abe's customer service, did you call them and speak to a live person or keep your correspondence strictly through messaging? Maybe that's the difference.

I thought I'd resurrect this old abebooks thread rather than begin a new one, to mention something odd I've now noticed a few times recently on abe: one seller seemingly listing titles under four different seller names. If you input 'Folio Society The Castle of Fratta' and select 'listed within the past 48 hours', for example, there appear no fewer than four identical listings for the one title, with even the same inventory number bar the last couple of characters. Thus it seems that 'MAD 4 BOOKS', 'BIG BANG BOOKS', 'JULIE'S BOOKSHOP', and 'Book Factory' are all one and the same.

Having recently ordered what was clearly and specifically listed as the 2007 Folio Society edition of Little Women from 'MusicMagpie' (not the most promising name for a bookseller, I admit) on abe, and received a superbly hideous edition that rejoiced in the colophon 'Budget Books' for which I initiated a blistering return Novak Djokovic would be proud of, I'm now more wary than ever of the quality and reliability of booksellers on abebooks.

Caveat emptor innit.

>55 cronshaw: good to see as I almost ordered a new listing from the book factory! Thanks!

>55 cronshaw:

Mad4Books are one of the biggest bulk listers on eBay, so much so that I exclude all their titles from my standard eBay Folio search. Pests.

>57 folio_books:

On the other hand I've occasionally gotten fantastic deals b/c the bulk seller in question didn't bother to do any research on what they were selling. So I'll still reluctantly look at bulk seller listings.

>58 MobyRichard:

I can see how that might work to one's advantage but the sheer tedium of wading though all the dross deterred me a long time ago.

Some very odd listings do appear. Perhaps the oddest to come my way was the 1874-6 edition of Landor's works, in eight substantial volumes, £2.62 including delivery to the UK from Kennys (sic) bookstore of Maryland and Ireland. I fully expected the order to be cancelled or at least that I would be presented with a substantial shipping surcharge to consider, but I placed it, a week or two went by and the books duly arrived. Landor has never been popular, but this is the only instance I've met of a bookseller willing to pay to be rid of him.

FYI Abe continually lists a Folio society “Tale of Two Cities - Charles Dickens; Introduction Christopher Hibbert” by multiple sellers, same stock photo. I’ve ordered twice, received a cheap t2c bantam edition and a Cartland romance novel instead.

>61 foxtrot345: A problem here is that ABE Books automatically links their stock photos with the ISBN input by the bookseller and if the latter does not check their listings to see that the right photo is used, you end up with the misleading photos of the book for sale.

Some booksellers in their detailed descriptions state whether the stock photo is relevant (or not) for the listing. I try to do that nowadays. Other sellers load their own photos of their books and this knocks out the stock photo.

ABE sellers should to be professional booksellers (compare this with the situation on Amazon and eBay). I assume that all are happy to send a photo of one of their books to a genuine would-be purchaser. I would happily do that for every genuine would-be purchase.

One particular issue for those who sell Folio Society books in New and unopened condition is that unless we break the Folio Society wrapping we do not know when the book was published etc. I have lost a few sales as I was not prepared to break the Folio Society shrink-wrapping and open the book. After all, once you have done that its value would be lower and if the enquirer decides they do not want the book after all then you have one less 'New' and unopened book in stock.

>62 English-bookseller: I realize the stock photo is not always a match but, in this case, the seller’s description is FS T2C “ Introduction Christopher Hibbert”.

I tend to use just those who have shops and who post their own photos. When I've done that, I've, so far, not had a problem, with the added advantage that parcels have consistently been well wrapped, even for a 'cheap' book. I'd rather support individual dealers anyway. I'll only step outside those parameters if I'm only looking for a cheap reading copy - and it's noticeable how often the book sent does not meet the criteria to my satisfaction - particularly the condition (some people's concept of VG, Fine etc terminology is rather more relaxed than mine!).

>64 Willoyd: I agree about the usefulness of being guided by whether or not a bookseller can be bothered to post their own images. It doesn't take that much effort, after all, so any dealer who's too lazy to do so can do without my custom from now on. I too would prefer to support individual dealers rather than conveyor belt warehouse owners who are also typically unable to answer questions you put to them about their own listed books.

My favourite experience was ordering a "Limited Editions Club" copy of Journey to the Centre of the Earth, and receiving an Around the World in Eighty Days graphic novel. At least they god the author right!

But I think your average book-buying punter is missing a trick: if you order a book listed as "Folio Society" and get a cruddy trade edition, the seller invariably refunds you without asking for the return of the book. If all you wanted was a cheap paperback to begin with, this seems like an easy way to get free books.

I, for my part, only consider Abe listings that either have seller-supplied images, or have no image but a detailed textual listing that clearly describes the edition in question.

>66 ubiquitousuk: Agreed, I think it is somewhat incumbent on the buyer to also do some diligence. If you're ostensibly purchasing a quarter-bound leather book with silk binding, and the description says "Hardback in good condition plus," expect to be surprised no matter what book you get.

>65 cronshaw:
Having said that, I've just ordered a set of books from a dealer/shop who didn't put photos up - but I dropped them a line last night and today they've sent me a set of half a dozen or so, including ones of particular things I wanted photos of, and with detailed answers to a couple of additional questions. Order went in this afternoon. But I did research the shop first (and followed those basic principles)! We'll see if holds together, but I've no reason to doubt it.

>68 Willoyd: My beef with ABE is that over the years they have allowed various "aggregators" to dominate search results. These "sellers" really aren't actual bookstores but rather outfits that advertise books they don't own (and, when they receive an order, then source the book from somewhere else--presumably more cheaply--before shipping to the purchaser). These aggregators are the worst offenders when it comes to accuracy: they only use stock photos, frequently claim that the books will be "new," and are really careless as to edition, date, etc. (Of course they are! Since they don't presently own the book, they can't advertise details accurately in advance.) And they totally dominate the search results, making it tedious to sift through their offerings to find legitimate books on offer. In some cases it feels like the aggregators represent more than half of the actual results.

ABE, of course, offers no way for customers to filter out aggregators' books from search results. If you buy enough books on ABE you'll eventually learn to avoid them, but it's so frustrating as a user.

>69 jfclark:

Interesting, is this mainly a US thing? I've not much noticed such operators (only one based in Maine comes to mind) in the course of buying maybe a couple of hundred books through ABE, and much of the time the books are delivered two or three days after I place an order. Postage costs mean I'm generally only looking outside the UK for titles that had no distribution here, a fairly small proportion of those I've been seeking out. It probably helps too that I'm much of the time attempting to buy texts that never ran to a second edition, which simplifies matters. I do recall, though I'd rather forget it, one instance where a seductively cheap LEC Frankenstein turned out to be a Barnes & Noble production.

>69 jfclark: I actually prefer Biblio over Abe and with the former when doing a search you can exclude all of the sellers (island books comes to mind,) with your search. They also have the quite cheap annual $20 for 10% off every order for a maximum of $25 each purchase which is nice.

>69 jfclark: wrote: ... [aggregators] totally dominate the search results, making it tedious to sift through their offerings to find legitimate books on offer ...

I have a common routine way of using Abe search now:

"Advanced Search"
"Sort by highest price"
"Hardcover"
"no print on demand"
Change number shown to max (50 per page)
...and then whatever my focal search terms are

This cuts out most of the cruft I find.

The highest price means there are usually a few way out of any reasonable price range, but 1) these are often attractive and/or interesting to browse—I've learned about some new publishers this way—and 2) there is rarely more than a few unless the focal search term is extremely broad.

It would be nice if there was a way to set such options as defaults (I did a bit of looking in the preferences but didn't find a way). I could write a script to do it I suppose, but I don't search that often.

>69 jfclark:
Have to say that i don't find they get in the way very much at all. But then, as I say, I usually set filters to only those with stock photos etc. I only broaden if I can't find what I'm looking for that way. The aggregators are pretty easy to spot and bypass, so don't bother me that much even then.

>72 abysswalker:
I have a similar approach and use this article on bookjacking as a lookup list when I'm unsure about a seller https://www.zubalbooks.com/article-bookjacking.jsp

Has anyone had any experience purchasing a book from a seller on Abe called “Jeffrey H Marks rare books” Rochester NY in the states?

I purchased the two volumes of the Icelandic Sagas from them in 2019. They were very helpful arranging carriage and the books arrived in the UK just over two weeks later, as described and well packed. I was very happy with the transaction.
I hope this helps.

>76 LoveAlice: Yes--I dealt with them in 2019 also. I requested extra photos, which were sent promptly, and my questions were answered. The book was well packed (I had to pay extra shipping, but I expected that, as it was a heavy volume), and I was satisfied with both the book and the service.

>1 MobyRichard: So, what do people here think of Abebooks? Are the "savings" worth it? ...a joke,

A little late but according to this latest email from Abebooks, I say a joke sounds about right :)



PS: I've had excellent dealings with Abebooks CS; just follow the rules read the item description and qualifications with a hawk's eye.

>79 mr.philistine:

Sponsored by ABAA no doubt. :p

>79 mr.philistine:

I thought it was a joke but I've just received the same email.

So if you can save up to 0%, does that mean some savings are negative percentiles?

Also received the same email

I've the same email - a strange blunder, but click to "see the sales" and a handful of booksellers are offering discounts of up to 30%.

>84 terebinth: The August 2022 Seller Sale is real,

with upto 40% off on Abebooks.com:
https://www.abebooks.com/books/book-sale-used-new-bestseller-textbooks/bookstore...

and upto 30% off on Abebooks.co.uk:
https://www.abebooks.co.uk/books/book-sale-used-new-bestseller-textbooks/booksto...

I am a bookseller on ABE and there are some useful checks on booksellers exploiting the marketing effect of a sale. There are for example limits on the number of sales in a a year that a bookseller can participate in. The way the percentage off sale offer is effected is universal across that bookshop's entire inventory. The sale process and its duration is controlled by ABE Books.

My experience of ABE Books as both a buyer and a seller has been very good. When there is a glitch or issue they respond very impressively to the few enquiries I have raised with them. The one blot in my opinion on their record is the presence of re-sellers and I cannot understand why they are tolerated.

My experience of selling on Amazon was very different.

Here is some more food for thought..
https://www.abebooks.com/books/top-rare-collectors-valuable-inexpensive/affordab...

Among the 'Tips for finding affordable collectible books', AbeBooks suggests collecting FS books. And however much one might dis/agree with FS being affordable or collectible, it is the only publisher mentioned by name in this article dated 28 Aug, 2021.

But AbeBooks still describes FS as a 'half publisher, half book club (as it has members)'. However, as per Wikipedia the membership model ended on 01 Sept, 2016.