Imagine a world where a charity shop advertises a 'used' folio book above r.r.p

DiscussieFolio Society Devotees

Sluit je aan bij LibraryThing om te posten.

Imagine a world where a charity shop advertises a 'used' folio book above r.r.p

1tkidcharlemagne
Bewerkt: aug 8, 2022, 9:39 pm

Dit bericht wordt niet meer getoond omdat het door verschillende gebruikers is aangemerkt als misbruik. (Tonen)
Do Oxfam know something Folio don't?

50 Pounds for a book retailing off the folio website at 44 pounds, plus a ten pounds p&p cost to top it all off. Is it any wonder these big charitable organisations have such dreadful reputations.

It specifically says a used copy too so this isn't a donation from folio. It is daylight robbery though.

https://onlineshop.oxfam.org.uk/something-wicked-this-way-comes/product/HD_300849765

2mr.philistine
Bewerkt: aug 14, 2022, 9:15 am

>1 tkidcharlemagne: This thread should be of interest: Ridiculous secondary prices for FS books 2021

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165425599914 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165625659274
Here is the FS 2018 William Morris facsimile edition of Rubáiyát of Omar Khayyám for £100 only (down from £150); currently available from FS for £34.95 - curiously up from £29.95 since at least after 09 Apr, 2022. https://www.foliosociety.com/uk/the-rubaiyat-of-omar-khayyam.html

3ultrarightist
aug 9, 2022, 12:26 am

>1 tkidcharlemagne: Gotta pay the salaries of the folks running the non-profits.

4tkidcharlemagne
Bewerkt: aug 9, 2022, 3:28 am

Dit bericht wordt niet meer getoond omdat het door verschillende gebruikers is aangemerkt als misbruik. (Tonen)
>3 ultrarightist: Indeed Ultra. Would Folio have a case for suing Oxfam for false advertising? They're essentially inflating their prices and making them appear less competitive in the broader market.

The brass balls of Oxfam is staggering. Wonder why they're taking over the high street putting small independent traders out of business. Very favourable tax and rent exemptions.

5tkidcharlemagne
aug 9, 2022, 3:12 am

Dit bericht wordt niet meer getoond omdat het door verschillende gebruikers is aangemerkt als misbruik. (Tonen)
>2 mr.philistine: I understand there are individual immoral scammers. This has been going on since time immemorial. However Oxfam are a multinational company.A 25% mark up and this is a corporate decision. This can't be the responsibility of an individual store manager. Their overheads are so minimal they can partake in this sort of borderline fraudulent activity and no one bats an eyelid.

6PartTimeBookAddict
aug 9, 2022, 3:35 am

This HAS to go all the way to the top! Someone call a cop or a teacher!

7tkidcharlemagne
aug 9, 2022, 3:43 am

Dit bericht wordt niet meer getoond omdat het door verschillende gebruikers is aangemerkt als misbruik. (Tonen)
>6 PartTimeBookAddict: I wouldn't dare to claim sarcasm is the lowest form of wit as I like a good troll. However....

Maintain your standards young man.

8English-bookseller
aug 9, 2022, 5:02 am

The Oxfam shops are mostly staffed by unpaid volunteers who would not be expected to know much about books or even commerce.

If you really wish to know about the most egregious behaviour by Oxfam staff, it was committed by a few of their paid 'professional' staff working abroad with women refugees. The internet has plenty to say on that appalling subject. There have been some jaw-dropping findings of abuse of power by a few of these Oxfam professional staff. Power corrupts etc.

9tkidcharlemagne
Bewerkt: aug 9, 2022, 5:18 am

Dit bericht wordt niet meer getoond omdat het door verschillende gebruikers is aangemerkt als misbruik. (Tonen)
>8 English-bookseller: I have spoken to numerous Oxfam members of staff in their book only shops. They are very au fait with prices of folio books.

The Bradbury is for sale in their Herne Hill bookshop. They know full well what they're doing imho.

As for their less salubrious reputation their name preceeds them. Many of these organisations are essentially fronts for illegal activity and what a cover they afford.

10What_What
aug 9, 2022, 6:18 am

>5 tkidcharlemagne: You should definitely create a new thread to identify sellers who are committing fraud and scamming buyers. What platforms do they operate on, and how do they not get shut down after scamming so many people?

11tkidcharlemagne
aug 9, 2022, 6:24 am

Dit bericht wordt niet meer getoond omdat het door verschillende gebruikers is aangemerkt als misbruik. (Tonen)
>10 What_What: It's all about due dilligence on the part of the buyer. The issue of artificial product price inflation however is an insurmountable problem imho. Too much greed and unrealistic expectations. The secondhand market of folio publications is sadly pretty cancerous.

12ubiquitousuk
aug 9, 2022, 6:40 am

Just to be clear, Oxfam is not engaging in fraud, nor in false advertising.

What do you mean by artificial product price inflation? Who is to say that the price charged by Folio isn't itself too high or too low? The way a market works is that sellers can set whatever prices they want, and buyers can buy as much or as little as they want from whoever they want. Maybe Oxfam thinks that being able to walk into a brick & mortar store and take the book home with you is worth £5 to someone. Maybe they think buying from a charity rather than a for-profit company is worth £5 to at least one buyer out there. If they are correct then someone will buy the book and the market will vindicate their pricing. If they are wrong, or if Oxfam just mistakenly offered a non-competitive price then the market will punish them with an unsold book. That's just the market doing its job, no need for outrage.

13tkidcharlemagne
Bewerkt: aug 9, 2022, 7:14 am

Dit bericht wordt niet meer getoond omdat het door verschillende gebruikers is aangemerkt als misbruik. (Tonen)
>12 ubiquitousuk: It is fraud. Maybe not in a legalese sense but morally - undoubtedly. The fact you appear to be giving them complete carte blanche I would contend says more about you than anything else and it's not a pretty picture. With all due respect of course.

Oxfam don't operate in the marketplace every other retailer does because they hide behind this claim of charity ie their entire raison d'etre is they are morally superior than a retailer struggling to pay extortionate rents. Rents they themselves are absolved from paying,based on said moral exceptionalism. Therefore they exist in a vaccuum and therefore should avoid charges of hypocrisy.

No morally upstanding individual would say their pricing is justified and as I have clearly proven this isn't a free market argument because they are a protected mollycoddled entity.

P.S Profit is how the world goes round. Without it you'd be on skid row. It's not a dirty word you know. When an organisation receives an item for nothing and then charges 25% more than the retailer that AINT THE FREE MARKET.

I hope this helps.

14Joshbooks1
aug 9, 2022, 7:24 am

I just woke to this and am confused, this new user is a troll with a little too much time on their hands, right? He or she can't be serious...

15folio_books
aug 9, 2022, 7:29 am

>14 Joshbooks1:

Be assured, careful note is taken whenever anyone indulges in troll-like behaviour.

16tkidcharlemagne
Bewerkt: aug 9, 2022, 7:45 am

Dit bericht wordt niet meer getoond omdat het door verschillende gebruikers is aangemerkt als misbruik. (Tonen)
>14 Joshbooks1: Oh heaven forbid a new user. Is this some peculiar ad hominem I'm not familiar with. If my post has engendered a healthy discussion then surely that adds to the hotbed of debate.

How strange to receive such a passive aggressive response. Do you have insecurity issues?

As for the flagging what sort of individual resorts to such childish activity. How about entering the debate and countering my argument.

17PossMan
aug 9, 2022, 7:41 am

>8 English-bookseller:: That is why I do not patronise Oxfam or British Red Cross The behaviour of paid executives in Haiti and Africa leaves much to be desired. A pity as the volunteers who run the UK shops do not deserve to be tainted with such a reputation.

18English-bookseller
aug 9, 2022, 7:51 am

>17 PossMan: I agree. I think the volunteers that I have met in Oxfam shops are pretty wonderful.

19tkidcharlemagne
Bewerkt: aug 9, 2022, 9:01 am

Dit bericht wordt niet meer getoond omdat het door verschillende gebruikers is aangemerkt als misbruik. (Tonen)
Flagging a message you didn't like to get it removed when it broke no rules but apparently 'triggered' some pathologically sensitive individuals. Such a 2022 thang right. I can't imagine anyone intellectually robust resorting to such a peculiar activity.

It's certainly not something I would do. When you censor someone that person wins. Period. It's a universal law.

And look. Flagging the flag gets you flagged. No one likes to be exposed.

20RRCBS
aug 9, 2022, 8:31 am

This isn’t a debate forum though…if you want to have a debate about morality, there are many sites on which to do that.

21teppi2
Bewerkt: aug 27, 2022, 12:06 pm

It is interesting to note for Folio's "Something Wicked" that pretty much every second hand seller prices it above retail:
- There are three listings on Abebooks, ranging from GBP 60 to USD 170.
- There are currently four listings on ebay.com ranging from GBP 48 (starting bid) to USD 120.
- In the last three months, only one book sold on ebay below Folio's price. Four sold above retail, and at least on sold for more than twice Folio's price ($115, no best offer).

Was this recently out of stock at Folio? If I remember correctly, it was out of stock in 2020, but I don't recall it not being available recently.

This is an overall trend for Folio Society Science Fiction and Horror titles and is somewhat confusing to me. The Folio Society Dune is another example. It is readily available now, has been offered by Folio for a long time, and as far as I know was never out of stock (or at least not for long). However, it is nearly always is listed (and sometimes sells) above retail.

22What_What
aug 9, 2022, 8:42 am

>21 teppi2: Some people pay more for the First Thus edition. Unexplainable to me, but they do. It could also be someone purchasing from a place the Folio Society no longer ships. And some people could, I imagine simply not know about the FS website and that it is still in stock there for lower.

23tkidcharlemagne
Bewerkt: aug 9, 2022, 9:00 am

Dit bericht wordt niet meer getoond omdat het door verschillende gebruikers is aangemerkt als misbruik. (Tonen)
>21 teppi2: It's called profiteering. I have no intention of labouring over the fact organisations that profess to be ethical shouldn't be doing that, but apparently even hinting at that gets you blackballed on here.

A definition - Profiteering is a pejorative term for the act of making a profit by methods considered unethical.

P.S - profiteering is illegal in the U.K. And as I'm sure all the Latin readers here will recognise - ignorantia juris non excusat. Ignorance is no excuse under the law.

24mr.philistine
Bewerkt: aug 9, 2022, 9:16 am

This post by the Oracle is an oldie but a goldie; and bears relevance on this thread as it did to the OP.
https://www.librarything.com/topic/276024#6257950

To those who wish to identify tricksters/ scamsters, this thread has been bookmarked on the FSD Wiki page.
https://wiki.librarything.com/index.php/Groups:Folio_Society_Devotees#:~:text=%2....

25folio_books
Bewerkt: aug 9, 2022, 9:12 am

>24 mr.philistine:

Your second link actually leads people to the Fine Press Forum.

FSD Wiki:

https://wiki.librarything.com/index.php/Groups:Folio_Society_Devotees

26mr.philistine
aug 9, 2022, 9:17 am

>25 folio_books: Thanks, corrected.

27English-bookseller
aug 9, 2022, 11:13 am

>21 teppi2: When I bought a copy from the Folio Society on 20 May 2022 it cost £39.95. I cannot recall but assume that was a sale price.

28ranbarnes
aug 9, 2022, 1:01 pm

Surely this is simply an Oxfam volunteer or employee searching for recent sale prices on eBay and not realising it has come back in stock fairly recently?

They definitely have raised their prices both online and in store since they were able to trade post covid. Some branches price more aggressively than others. I suppose it depends on the staff locally.

29antinous_in_london
aug 10, 2022, 5:01 pm

On the same subject, Oxfam now has a copy of ‘Japanese Tales’ for the bargain price of £600. I know it’s out of print but £600 seems like a reach !

30woodstock8786
aug 10, 2022, 5:12 pm

>29 antinous_in_london: there is still the eBay offering of Japanese Tales for €1200…

31antinous_in_london
Bewerkt: aug 10, 2022, 5:24 pm

>30 woodstock8786: Though it doesn't seem to be flying off the shelves at that price, as its been listed/re-listed a few times…

I can imagine this is one where someone will pay €1200 then the next week FS will announce a reprint for £39.95 !

32tkidcharlemagne
aug 12, 2022, 4:20 am

>31 antinous_in_london: They're shooting themselves in the foot sadly.

33DuncanHill
aug 26, 2022, 9:48 am

>1 tkidcharlemagne: Second-hand copies on Abebooks start at £60.

A charity is obliged to get the best return it can on donations. Things are worth what people are prepared to pay for them.

34tkidcharlemagne
aug 26, 2022, 12:13 pm

Dit bericht wordt niet meer getoond omdat het door verschillende gebruikers is aangemerkt als misbruik. (Tonen)
>33 DuncanHill: Put the book at a thousand pounds then. People are not prepared to pay their prices. There is a stage where receiving a book for free (they pay little to no rent) and attempting to sell it for above rrp is considered morally repugnant. Of course 'some people' believe they should be able to do what they like whilst existing in a vaccuum of zero consequences for their actions.

35AnnieMod
aug 26, 2022, 2:15 pm

>34 tkidcharlemagne: Then the book won't sell and they will try something else. But if they believe this price will work, they are obligated to try it - that's their job. If you do not like the price, don't buy it.

The point of a charity shop is not to get cheap goods to people, it is to make money for the charity. If you do not like that, don't use them. Do you really find it morally repugnant for a charity to try to get as much money for their cause as they can with the resources they have? Because this is what you are saying essentially...

Just because it means that John Doe cannot get a book he wants for pennies does not mean that they are not doing their job.

36tkidcharlemagne
aug 26, 2022, 3:32 pm

Dit bericht wordt niet meer getoond omdat het door verschillende gebruikers is aangemerkt als misbruik. (Tonen)
Little of the Oxfam money reaches the third world and judging by recent scandals it comes with the caveat of sexual favours. It also appears to end up being sold again rather than being given away. They're largely scam outfits. Cancer research UK is notorious for being so.

Bin the thread. I cannot cope responding anymore. The majority of you just read charity and think that gives them a pass. Just bin in.

37tkidcharlemagne
Bewerkt: aug 26, 2022, 4:23 pm

Dit bericht wordt niet meer getoond omdat het door verschillende gebruikers is aangemerkt als misbruik. (Tonen)
>35 AnnieMod: Food for thought. I think you should delete the thread if you dislike your opinion being questioned.

38What_What
aug 26, 2022, 8:45 pm

>37 tkidcharlemagne: Are you still going on about this nonsense?

39mr.philistine
aug 27, 2022, 12:17 am

The pot calling the kettle black :|

40tkidcharlemagne
Bewerkt: aug 27, 2022, 6:15 am

Dit bericht wordt niet meer getoond omdat het door verschillende gebruikers is aangemerkt als misbruik. (Tonen)
>38 What_What: Mod questioned me again. I responded with facts. She multiple flagged the post. It seems to be a recurring theme.

I forgot to mention. A VERY large proportion of your purchases for a book they receive for free goes to management and their pension pots.

Now google Oxfam workers Haiti.

41tkidcharlemagne
aug 27, 2022, 6:08 am

Dit bericht wordt niet meer getoond omdat het door verschillende gebruikers is aangemerkt als misbruik. (Tonen)
>39 mr.philistine: How so? I don't flag. Never have. Never would. Not my style. Very strange behaviour for an adult.

42wcarter
aug 27, 2022, 6:16 am

Een bricht van de groep AdminAn unfortunate part of social media is the presence of trolls, even on sites as specialised as Library Thing.

Trolls tend to be of above average intelligence, but they lack empathy and are classified by psychiatrists as having a sadistic or sociopathic personality. They get pleasure from upsetting others and provoking a reaction.

Trolls are very subtle and clever, often starting out to look as much as possible like a genuine poster before slowly upping the odds and drawing people into their web. They will act very hurt if someone suspects them, and appeal to their earlier supporters to help them in their defence.

They will include believable but spurious details about themselves as background information in an attempt to be more accepted.

Following are the accepted ways in which to deal with a suspected troll.

IGNORE THEM
This is by far the best way to deal with trolls. They hate being ignored as the only reason they are on a site is to be noticed and provoke a reaction, and the more emotive and angry the reaction, the better.

REPLY FACTUALLY
If you absolutely must reply to a suspected troll, do so without any emotion and using simple facts. A reply such as this would be appropriate:-
“You are incorrect. The facts are XXXX because of YYYY and my reference is ZZZZ”.
That’s it, no more, no further comment, but you have let others in the group have the correct information.

DIVERT THEM
Trolls are normally active on multiple sites trying to get a reaction, and if one site reacts more than another, they will usually concentrate their attention on the former and they will eventually forget the latter. So it comes back to ignoring them, or replying in an unemotive manner.

BANNING
Trolls love to get banned! They gloat to themselves about it because they have upset not only the members of a group but the administrators too. They may even comment on another group about the banning.
“Poor XXXX got banned from YYYY. I think this is unjust as XXXX was such a nice person and the administrators of YYYY are horrible.”
Unfortunately banning does not work, but only encourages a troll. They rapidly reappear using a different name, and sometimes even a different IP address, and continue their harassment of the group.

The bottom line here - IGNORE THEM - it’s the only thing that works.

43tkidcharlemagne
Bewerkt: aug 27, 2022, 6:48 am

Dit bericht wordt niet meer getoond omdat het door verschillende gebruikers is aangemerkt als misbruik. (Tonen)
>42 wcarter: The O.P was a genuine message aimed at starting a discussion. Defining me as a troll would be rather offensive if I valued your opinion which obviously I do not. 'Provoking a reaction' - all posts provoke reactions. It's called human interaction. 'Sociopathic' - What could be more narcissistic/sociopathic than labelling/targeting someone's perfectly reasonable post as a thought crime? I get the impression self reflection is not something you are familiar with. Again your reponse intrigues me from a psychoanalytical sense. Nothing more. All my posts are pertinent and not designed to offend.

I know your character type. They are becoming all too pervasive and censorial. If the discussion is not something you agree with then you flag it (literally or it appears in your case metaphorically) so other more sentient beings can't have an adult conversation. As you can see above many have responded as adults. Your response says more about you than me sadly but I don't expect you to recognise your own distinct failings.

44InVitrio
aug 27, 2022, 10:11 am

Weirdly, I have seen the same thing available in different places at different prices. Never knew that was illegal.

45folio_books
aug 27, 2022, 10:31 am

>42 wcarter:

I was going to suggest now might be a good time to repost "how to spot a troll". If anyone was in any doubt this should settle it.

46tkidcharlemagne
Bewerkt: aug 27, 2022, 1:30 pm

Dit bericht wordt niet meer getoond omdat het door verschillende gebruikers is aangemerkt als misbruik. (Tonen)
>45 folio_books: The perfect response to hearing something you don't like and I fully expect a multiple account holder (perhaps even yourself) to repeat it again. Rather than counter their argument simply 'flag flag' and it shall be removed forthwith.

I mean when you're repeatedly defending a charity no one wants to be reminded of the licentious African adventures of their workforce. It kind of makes you sound and look really disingenuous.

I guess that's a perfect micrcosm for the times though and why buck the trend. Much better to just remove the post and get back in our safe spaces.

Rather indictative of a civilisational collapse don't you think, which is curious considering our current inexorable demise right.

I suspect the size of one's folio library may actually be inversive of intellectual curiosity which is a rather peculiar anthropological phenomena. Dr. Carter a perfect example. Look at that collection! Not what one would expect at all. So much reading (I'm assuming - maybe it's a copy and paste). I mean look at it. 'Look how amazing it makes me look'. However. Sadly so little acquiring of knowledge and wisdom. But I can write a whole treatise on what I don't like to read or even look at frankly and 'my opinion really counts and if it's not followed to the tee I'm going to be really mad!'. That kind of thing.

It's fine. I do believe you need to amend your terms and services though old boy. I know. it's a broad spectrum and subjective to the hilt. Your own personal fiefdom to be ruled over with an iron fist because...well. The actual sensation of life has been terribly disappointing for you. On a personal level correct. Anyway I don't wish to labour on any point. Really well done on your conformity of thought.

47originaux
aug 27, 2022, 2:07 pm

This thread started with: Something Wicked This Way Comes...

48podaniel
aug 29, 2022, 8:06 am

>42 wcarter:

Thank you so much--that's the best explanation of a troll and how to respond to one that I've seen. Very educational and, as always with your efforts, greatly appreciated.