New Release: Neverwhere - Neil Gaiman

Neverwhere by Neil Gaiman is now up for sale at £85. The FS love for Gaiman continues.

Interesting they released this so close to their autumn collection reveal

The bad news is they have increased prices on other book titles again.

This is one of my all time favourite books…I guess I won’t be able to skip it, but the price is steep and I am not sure I like the illustrations tremendously

>6 woodstock8786:

The illustrations are garish and cartoonish. Unfortunately, this is a missed opportunity by the FS.

That's one I'd been hoping for for a long time. Not sure about the illustrations, but then I wasn't with Anansi Boys and loved it once I saw it myself, not just photos. And yes, they started the Gaimans off with 75 Pounds, now it's 85 Pounds. That was to be expected, unfortunately.

>4 assemblyman: The price increases really are starting to bite.

I've never liked Gaiman and wouldn't buy any of his books but even if I did - $140 for that? 392 pages and 9 illustrations... Folio is out of their minds now when it comes to pricing! You can get 4-6 previously released Folio books with identical production value on the secondary market for $140. Seems to me like Folio is lining their pockets with the popularity of Gaiman. And the continuing trend to move towards popular genre fiction continues.

>10 Joshbooks1: Seems to me like Folio is lining their pockets with the popularity of Gaiman.

The gravy train :)

I really like these illustrations, much more than the Dave Mckean ones.

I love the concept for the story, but the characters had too much of the Gaiman zany-ness for me to care much about them.

>10 Joshbooks1: I can sort of see what you’re saying - there are “better ways to spend $140.” But you can apply that logic to every luxury purchase can’t you? Maybe some people just love this book in particular and don’t mind paying a premium for a new illustrated edition.

For what it’s worth, page count probably isn’t a good measure of worth, and 9 illustrations, including two double page spreads, isn’t that bad. And 21 coloured chapter headings, though if that’s simply printing “Chapter x” in a different colour, it’s hardly worth mentioning.

I actually love the illustrations, and will be purchasing a copy.

I will bite.

Well that's a pleasant surprise, and a purchase for sure, as soon as I know what else is in the next collection.

>13 What_What: I fall under this category. One of my favorite books, and very excited to see this. Compared to some press, this is a lot to get for $140, illustration-wise. Most presses are typically 4-6 illus or sometimes....none....

More fantasy. More Gaiman. No thanks.

I really hope the upcoming collection doesn't have even more popular fantasy sci-fi. I think they have that covered for the year and other genres need some love.

>1 assemblyman: "Neverwhere by Neil Gaiman is now up for sale at £85

"The bad news is they have increased prices on other book titles again."

If you were in the US it would cost you the equivalent of £137 shipped. Worth it?

Yes, significant price increases across all titles I had my eye on. Individually about £10 each, it looks like. Added up, that’s quite the difference. With the economic constraints just beginning to hit the UK, this was not a good move for titles already printed and ready to ship. Warehousing costs cannot justify these rises every few months, surely.

>16 trentsteel: I think you get a lot here as well. Illustrated slipcase, an abundance of illustrations, and even illustrated chapter headings. It feels like an $140 title.

The cap on UK power prices is to rise by 80% in October, and is forecast to rise every three months for the foreseeable future. Lighting Folio's warehouse and keeping it at a constant temperature would very much justify price rises. I don't think any of us really know how the current situation is going to play out. Safe to say it's not good ...

>16 trentsteel: Most presses are typically 4-6 illus or sometimes....none....

Name a few, if you please.

>22 red_guy: This is only for households — business rates are unconstrained by the price cap (which probably means that Folio have been facing increased budget strain from energy for some months already, plus inflationary pressure)

>13 What_What: I think that's what I said and that it appears Folio is charging a steep premium solely because the book is by Gaiman. Compared with A Long Walk to Freedom, something I've had my eye on for over a year but seems too high for my tastes at $120, why Gaiman's book justifies a $20 premium is suspect. Tack on shipping and taxes and you're getting into the $200 range which is crazy for the production value. Eye of the beholder I suppose.

I disagree with you regarding the blanket statement of spending money on luxury goods. There are still fair deals to be had with luxury products. The last two Foolscap publications I thought were absolute bargains - I would have paid double and been happy with my purchase. Just because Folio is charging near absurd prices for their books doesn't mean they are fair because they're luxury goods. Take Lord of the Rings Limited Edition - I grew up with the books and love the movies. I won't sell my Folio Limited Edition because it has value to me. However, do I think Folio completely hoodwinked me in terms of production and value and thus ripped me off? Absolutely. But such tactics, although good in the short term may not help long term profits. It's why I didn't purchase The Gormenghast Trilogy and will forever buy any Foolscap production.

>24 gmacaree: Yes, I thought that was the case but couldn't find a reference. Suffice it to say that small and medium sized businesses are extremely vulnerable, and I imagine that this time next year we will count ourselves lucky if we even have a Folio Society in its current form. The idea that schools will have to close for part of the week because they cannot pay power bills is appalling and puts our entitled whingeing into perspective. I do not think solving the scale of the problems the UK faces is within the skillset of our soon-to-be new prime minister, or indeed the current one, who today has recommended that we buy new kettles to save on electricity.

Personally I don't think that Folio is publishing enough escapist fantasy. I intend to read nothing else as we move into winter ...

>25 Joshbooks1: Did you purchase the LOTR LE? It wasn't clear. If so, aren't you just proving my point? Confused.

Other than the price, I like everything about this release. Design, illustrations, slipcase, choice of writer for introduction - all of it. I’ll definitely be picking it up.

I just answered their most recent survey by requesting more Gaiman and Pratchett, so this is a must buy for me on my next order.

>27 What_What: I'm really so confused what you're talking about. Proving your point about the LOTR LE? I was saying I will keep it because I like it and Tolkien but feel taken advantage of by Folio Society. The value is no where near the price. Unless you feel that way about the new Gaimen novel? If so, yes, I am proving your point that it's not worth $140 in terms of production and is far too expensive for what you get. Anyway left move on.

Steep prices but what a nice release. Don't know why they're releasing it separate from the fall collection. Also the special Folio 75 celebrations including the winning book from the polls will happen in October (according to FS instagram). Looks like an expensive end of year.

>30 Joshbooks1: You spent all that money on a book because, on the whole, it clearly appealed to you, despite as an artifact, even in your own opinion, it’s not worth that much money.

Having acknowledged that yourself, why is it perplexing to you that someone would go through the exact calculus and purchase Neverwhere without even thinking twice?

>29 bradhaupt: I want nothing more than for them to continue publishing Pratchett but I believe they have lost the licensing for it. I hope sooner rather than later they can re-negotiate with the rights holder.

>32 What_What: I'm even more confused than ever. What are you talking about? Where is this anger coming from? It's not perplexing at all, I never said such a thing, and people will buy it. Haha this is a book forum, lets take a deep breath and move on.

>34 Joshbooks1: Where’s the anger lol ? As someone who is reading the whole back and forth between the two of you, I discern more ‘‘spirit’’ from your posts tbh.

Re: price: honestly, given recent precedents, I'm just glad this isn't a limited edition.

>37 strangenews: fantasy sells. I know a lot of people here miss the old Folio but in all honestly Folio would not even be here right now if they still operated in the old ways. They need to make money to stay open. Fantasy is the genre of the day

>38 Geo135: fantasy sells... They need to make money to stay open. Fantasy is the genre of the day

So do coffee mugs, tampons and shoelaces. What is your point?

>38 Geo135:

Exactly, they did need to enlarge their range to avoid bankruptcy, and fantastic literature has a large audience that is willing to buy fine editions.

That being said, I wish they still did some limited editions of the old style now and then. I'm so glad I bought those before there were no new ones and prices for the old ones on the secondary market exploded. Books like Odes of Horace, The Luttrell Psalter, the Blakes, The Faerie Queene etc. were such beautiful books of unsurpassed quality. And those facsimiles were still within a price range that I would call reasonable for the excellent quality you got, quite in contrast to some facsimile publishers in Austria and Switzerland, for example. But considering how long it took most of those editions to sell, compared to how current limited editions sell out not in years, but often just months, I can understand why they went this way. It's still a loss.

I don't even mind them doing fantasy, but not to the extent they end up neglecting other genres.

And if they really want to sell out, why not at least go for things less basic and common as Marvel or Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones? Ok, some Gaiman, but multiple Gaiman titles? Aren't there other ideas they can come up with?

Same with doing new versions of things they have already released. They already did Gormenghast a couple times, as recently as 2011. Did we need another so soon? There was a Dracula in 2008, now here it comes again in another version, in both an LE and SE.

There's a big world of literature, Folio. Certainly you can come up with more inspired options. One reason something like Fear and Loathing probably did well is there aren't five other publishers doing it and Folio hasn't done it three times before (and it was well made and not grossly overpriced). It feels a little more fresh than seeing the same titles over and over.

>41 rsmac: I agree. They find the most success with titles that don’t really have an alternative special edition available. The Terry Pratchett books were so popular because pretty much the only alternative are Discworld Collectors Editions and those are about as mass market as you can get.

>31 A.Godhelm:
'Don't know why they're releasing it separate from the fall collection.'

It's a thing they have done before. Presumably they are hoping that enough customers will want it now, now, now not to wait and save on postage charges.

Me, I want it but will wait for the full collection to add it to a nice big boxful of books.

>39 mr.philistine:

'So do coffee mugs, tampons and shoelaces. What is your point?'

Well, Folio have offered us mugs before, but tampons and shoelaces?

Are you suggesting they branch out?

>44 Cat_of_Ulthar:

Difficult to squeeze the logo on ...

>44 Cat_of_Ulthar: Tampons, makes sense now they are no longer considered luxury items and so are VAT free just like FS books. 🤦‍♂️

>40 SF-72: "That being said, I wish they still did some limited editions of the old style now and then."

Doesn't Dante count?

And I don't like the Rob Roy treatment, but it also wasn't that long ago.

Also Aurora whatever it was called. Not for me, but seems like the same kind of project as some of the old fancy facsimiles, despite not being classic or traditional literature.

>40 SF-72:

Babar, Peter Rabbit, Kama Sutra.

Whatever the 'old style' was, they are still trying different things, not just fantasy.

And I would strongly argue that, whatever Gormenghast is, it's not any sort of genre fantasy book. More sui generis.

>47 abysswalker:

The Dante is an absolutely beautiful edition.

As for Aurora, it is classic Folio: this bizarre thing you never expected to want (and perhaps didn't know existed) then found yourself loving it when you held it in your hands :-)

>47 abysswalker:
>48 Cat_of_Ulthar:

I was talking about the kind of facsimiles you don't get elsewhere in this quality and at this price, be it something like the complete Luttrell Psalter in superb quality, or those huge Blakes that looked very much like the original watercolours. And no, I wouldn't count the latest children's books (though some were facsimiles), Dante, or Rob Roy (both with new illustrations, awful ones for my taste, which one can certainly argue about) as in the same category. Even their last Blake was a disappointment with glossy paper and not nearly the quality of Night Thoughts or Poems Of Thomas Gray, in which the books were very close to the originals I'd seen in a museum.

I'm a fantasy fan, by the way, and just bought the Gaiman, and before that Ghormengast. I do like a lot of what they're doing nowadays and am glad for the wider range of genres. But apart from the Morris Rubáiyát, which was a very small one and had already been done by another publisher, the last facsimile like those I mentioned above was Gargantua and Pantagruel, and I think that was three years ago. I can't speak for the quality of Aurora Australis, since that's one I didn't buy, but it's something completely different from what I referred to myself. And yes, I wish they still did editions like those I mentioned, but I don't really see that happening anymore. Possible some more Morris, but they clearly decreased the quality with Blake and I don't see them doing another Faerie Queene considering how long that one took to sell out. Since I loved books like those, I regret that, as much as I can understand some of it. (If you're not in it solely for the love of books and not making a profit is fine, then you can't really afford doing some of what they did in the past.) I frankly don't with the Blake, though. That one should have been done a lot better than they did.

>10 Joshbooks1: "Folio is out of their minds now when it comes to pricing!"

Lol... clearly they're not, as the Gaiman books seem to be selling pretty robustly.

>7 dlphcoracl: "The illustrations are garish and cartoonish. Unfortunately, this is a missed opportunity by the FS."

I disagree entirely. I think the illustrations are quite skillful and entirely appropriate to the story. You do realize that this is not meant for nor is it intended to appeal to those who are primarily readers of Trollope or Dickens novels, right? ;)

>50 whytewolf1: yeah people are missing the point with the Illustrations. Neil Gaiman writes graphic novels. This art style absolutely makes sense.

>44 Cat_of_Ulthar: Are you suggesting they branch out?

I fear I am deep in territory where angels fear to tread. But if there is no way out, the only way is in. So in we go till the bitter end :)

They have already branched out unless you can equate modern fantasy with 'the world's great literature' (per Charles Ede's original goal). Perhaps manga and anime would have been more appropriate; speaking of which, any wagers on how long before FS tap into the 'global anime market - which was valued at USD 24.80 billion in 2021 and expected to reach USD 26.89 billion in 2022.'? (https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/anime-market)
Perish the thought!

But since >38 Geo135: suggested 'money making' as a motive for delving into fantasy, I wish to add toothpaste, socks and rubber bands to my list in >39 mr.philistine: - all in the interest of making money of course! ;)

How about a series of pop-up events marketed via social media, a sort of literary salon-meets-19th-century Parisian bordello vibe in a synergistic campaign with, say, Ann Summers and Agent Provocateur, with exclusive FS-branded, um, equipment, with names like “the Mr Darcy”, “the Heathcliff”, or for the more adventurous, a special limited-edition “the White Whale” or “Cthulhu”?

>52 mr.philistine:

Modern fantasy can be 'the world's great literature', some of Gaiman's work is counted in that category by people who don't automatically discount any fantastic genre as inferior / not proper literature. (Of which there are many. But they might give some thought to the fantastic elements of Gilgamesh or Beowulf, to name but two great works of literature that the same people certainly wouldn't argue about.) That being said, I definitely agree that not everything that FS has published in this or other genres is great literature.

And since manga and graphic novels have been mentioned (I don't personally like those, but can still see the merit when I see something great there): Gaiman managed to break traditional barriers (and actively wanted to do so) with his Sandman series of graphic novels, whose storytelling and character development are definitely up to par with great works of more traditional literature.

>54 SF-72: Modern fantasy can be 'the world's great literature', some of Gaiman's work is counted in that category by people who don't automatically discount any fantastic genre as inferior / not proper literature.

I believe this statement falls squarely within the ambit of 'popular public opinion'. Until works stand the test of time or set new precedents - not fusing elements of various genres, they cannot be considered great or literature in the traditional sense of those words. But they can certainly be considered international given their wide reach.

>54 SF-72: Gaimen, although I can see why people enjoy him, is not part of world's great literature. Nothing he has done is remotely as talented or clever as say In Search of Lost Time, Moby Dick, The Brothers Karamazov. I don't like his works but he is talented, however, he doesn't light a candle to the literary greats. He's a mainstream talented popular author like Martin.

>55 mr.philistine: I couldn’t help but recall what the Groves dictionary of music and musicians (a grand authority on all matters musical) wrote in their entry on Sergey Rachmaninov in the 1954:

''The enormous popular success some few of Rachmaninov's works had in his lifetime is not likely to last, and musicians never regarded it with much favor”.

… Which today is considered (among classical musicians) a prime example of extreme shortsightedness and snobbery.

I’m not saying every popular author is great, but as a passionate Gaiman fan I honestly can’t understand the derision sometimes directed towards him. He touches me in a way few of the traditionally accepted creators of ‘Great literature’ do, and I, for one, am very happy that the Folio Society, Arete and Lyra’s Books are publishing more of his books.

>57 BorisG: Literature ≠ Music ≠ Graphic Novels

Time ALONE will decide the outcome of alleged short/long-sightedness and snobbery. We live in a world where people are desperate to jump onto the bandwagon of greatness by hijacking and redefining the very terms used to qualify deserving works, then cry foul at the slightest scrutiny. By all means be happy and touched, but blending together pizza, sushi and biryani does not make the outcome greater than the sum of its parts.

Some people also tend to justify purely business decisions with balance sheets rather than academic rigour.

>52 mr.philistine: "They have already branched out unless you can equate modern fantasy with 'the world's great literature' (per Charles Ede's original goal)"

I do think that Charles Ede's original goal gets over-quoted in this forum, and is arguably not the standard the FS should be seeking to aspire to in the future. If you look at the books published by FS in the early years - which presumably met Charles Ede's concept of "great literature" - they were almost entirely works by dead white men. No book by a woman was published until the Poems of Emily Bronte in 1951, no book by a non-white author until even later (was there one before El Zarco the Bandit in 1957?), and I have no idea when FS finally got round to publishing works by living authors (has anyone researched this?).

I also think that a fair number of the authors published by FS in the early days, whilst they might have been considered to be "great literature" in the 1940s, are no longer seen as meriting that title. George du Maurier or R S Surtees, anyone?

Personally, I want to see a flourishing FS, and an FS constrained to publish books that have stood the test of time long enough to be considered "great literature" is not going to flourish. Period.

Certain reactions don't come as a surprise after having been around this forum for a while. I'm well aware that anything fantasy (or for some anything 'too modern') is automatically not in a category that can deserve respect. Neither do those who don't have a low opinion of it, 'of course'. Still, I'd like to say: Age / the test of time isn't the only factor that decides whether something is great literature or not. A lot of great works are forgotten and lost over time, others are (still) overrated long after they were published. And if one only counted something that created something new as great literature, there would be very little (if anything) in that category, and this includes some of Shakespeare's greatest works. And while Martin and Gaiman both write fantasy, they write very differently, so that comparison is unsuitable. But I don't expect anyone to change their opinion because of what I wrote. I won't either, after all.

>55 mr.philistine: as someone who believes some of Gaiman's work will stand the test of time, I agree with you that, apart from a few exceptions that immediately stand out as artistic monuments, it is as yet too soon to tell for an author so recently published.

(But also remember that much classic literature, including works by the like of Dickens and Shakespeare, was considered transient pop culture trash by many contemporaries.)

My argument for the greatness of Gaiman is as follows:

1. He has effectively fused archetypal mythology with the machinery of the modern novel that rewards both a reader looking for an adventure story and a reader knowledgeable of the history of ideas.
2. He exhibits a level of craft beyond most successful novelists, not least in that he writes with a degree of concision (presumably actually taking the advice of editors to heart).
3. He has innovated in terms of medium (Sandman obviously, but there are also other examples).
4. His writings contain humor, the hardest thing to write well, and further it is humor that I suspect will age reasonably well (there is already some proof of this given the length of his career so far).

One final point is that time as an arbiter produces false negatives as well as false positives. How much great classical literature has been lost to us due to the vicissitudes of time following the fall of Rome? Let's not undervalue the role that chance plays in sanctifying the classics. An example (source):

Bach and most of his music were all but forgotten. It would take until March 1829, when Felix Mendelssohn revived the 1727 St Matthew Passion for three performances in Berlin, that Bach was rightfully elevated to the exalted position that he still occupies today.

And that was Bach!

>62 abysswalker: A lot of classic literature is trash. It's just canonised trash.

Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Faulkner, Marquez, Proust, Cervantes, Tolkien, Gaimen, Martin. There are obviously two names on there that don't belong with the others, although very talented in their own rights. I like fantasy and read more than I ever have but... all time greats is a bold claim. Javier Marias is my favorite living author and his novels hold a special place in my heart. Is he nobel prize worthy? Maybe, and hopefully, but who knows. Is he an all time great, one of the best to have ever existed, who is on par with several of the names above? Nope. Gaimen is a creative and talented author but maybe let's cool our jets in comparing him to people who have not only changed literature but how humanity views and sees the world.

Ignoring the subjective of whether an author is great or is not, could Gaiman at least be done the courtesy of having his name correctly laid down.

>64 Joshbooks1: Another title by Marquez would have been exciting. They've only done one and it has been a few years. In fact, there's no Latin American lit at all currently on Folio's site. But no, Folio gives us another Gaiman to go along with the others currently available. Heck, even another Dostoevsky would have been welcome (Demons, maybe) as there's only the shorts and no novel by Dostoevsky currently available. But no, more Gaiman is where they focus their efforts.

And by the way, everyone knows with Neverwhere we're talking about a novelization of a 90s BBC miniseries, right? Not that other "classics" didn't have humble origins in a serialized format, but novelizations of screenplays sold as a deluxe edition (Suntup's version of The Omen is also this) strike me as particularly curious for this kind of treatment.

>59 TheEconomist: Well said. Perhaps we should let Mr. Ede rest in peace and simply acknowledge that the Folio Society (and the literary world at large) has moved on.

>66 rsmac: "everyone knows with Neverwhere we're talking about a novelization of a 90s BBC miniseries, right?"

That is a moderately misleading take, as Gaiman is primarily a writer/novelist who has branched out into various mediums, whereas Seltzer (The Omen) is almost entirely known for his screenwriting, producing, and directing film work. The wikipedia page about Seltzer doesn't even mention any of his novelizations.

Gaiman, on the other hand, has written many novels, and won Hugo, Nebula, and Bram Stoker awards (which, of course, don't prove anything on their own, but might at least indicate that he is taken seriously by people who care about speculative fiction).

The comparison is ludicrous, though there are some superficial similarities.

(Incidentally, I don't intend to demean The Omen, which I haven't read myself. It might be great! But my loosely educated guess is that it is a less impressive literary effort than Neverwhere.)

I’ve don’t know whether Gaiman will be considered great in 50 years, but it’s been clear for many years now that is no longer the criteria for Folio Society editions, and cannot be.

The choice is between a Folio Society which published books like this and George RR Martin, or no Folio Society all.

>68 abysswalker: It was written as a screenplay then adapted as a book. That's what happened. You can argue that Gaiman doing the novelization makes it better somehow, but it doesn't change the fact that that's how it happened. Nothing ludicrous about it.

>70 rsmac: Douglas Adams ‘Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy’ was written as a BBC radio play then adapted into a book - presumably FS production of this series of books also strikes you as ‘particularly curious’ & also merits your disdain as a mere novelisation of a BBC series ?

Oh, I just really disliked the BBC Neverwhere series. Tried to sit through it a couple times when it first hit video in the 90s and never got past the first tape. Just not for me.

Tried to read a Gaiman book again a few months ago (American Gods). He does not seem like a good writer to me. A bunch of wannabe clever episodes where random incidents happen and don't go anywhere or add up to anything. It's pop fluff. If you like him, fine - go buy yourself a FS Neverwhere and enjoy. I'm imagining Gaiman's prose attached to that story and can't see it possibly deserving comparisons to the great writers as seen in this thread, but nothing is stopping you from enjoying it if you disagree with my take on Gaiman. No doubt my bookshelves look very different from yours.

>70 rsmac: If the author has adapted his/her own work then stating this isn't really the disparagement you intended it to be, which was rather >68 abysswalker:'s point.

2001: A Space Odyssey is also technically a novelization of a screenplay, yet Arthur C. Clarke wrote both, so...

>73 whytewolf1: I would rather watch Kubrick's 2001 any day. I did start reading the Clarke book once but the movie made the book unnecessary. Things conceived as films work better as films (yes, I know 2001 book and film were developed simultaneously but Kubrick is more interesting to me than Clarke).

Btw, did anyone notice that particular Folio was raised in price a lot more than the others at that price range?

Just to clarify: Gaiman has been active in many areas, especially early on in his career. That includes developing some screenplays for the BBC, though judging from interviews he felt that only one turned out how he would have wished. He was less than happy with the BBC-series of Neverwhere (partly due to it being literally cheaply produced), so he turned his own material into a novel to get his original vision across. Personally, I rather liked what he did with London and the names there (I certainly see the Tube with different eyes), but above all with the idea of how people falling through the grates of society become invisible to the same. And in the end, you never know how much of it is real. While I like the novel and am glad there's finally a high-quality illustrated edition, I find later books to be more complex and fascinating. But no, just because an idea was first turned into a screenplay and only later into a novel - by the same writer to boot - doesn't mean that it's automatically inferior.

Wow, I have been following and I am quite surprised about the course of the discussion.
I am a Gaiman fan, but I can understand why people wouldn’t like him being compared with other writers.
The problem or rather the fact is that literature or the enjoyment thereof is always subjective.
The great pieces of literature are always stated as superior. You are not allowed to argue that Moby Dick is one of the best books, or War and Peace or the Scarlet Letter. I find them all lacking, but still they are enjoyed by many and it is only my opinion (the scarlet letter was terrible imho).

I really like that FS publishes a mix of classic and contemporary literature (be it fantasy, sci-fi or whatever),
and as long as we won’t see a LE of Fifty Shades of Grey, I don’t know why we should argue 😅🤷‍♀️

>77 woodstock8786: I’m sure a Fifty Shades of Grey LE is being considered - with a leather slipcase (with simulated whip-marks) & presentation handcuffs.

>78 antinous_in_london:

As is The Pink Weightloss Book, in a stunning binding that lasts much longer than the effects on the reader.

>78 antinous_in_london: really had to laugh. I love that idea! 🤣 maybe that would finally convince me reading it!

>79 originaux: ah so many possibilities! 😁

If this trend bleeds over into the non-fiction, perhaps a Folio edition of Eat, Pray, Love could be next.

Surely with Folio publishing around 50 titles a year there's room for such a popular and culturally significant title to help pull in new demographics of readers. They made a box office smash movie with Julia Roberts and everything so what other criteria does Folio need?

Is Gaiman really so controversial? Too popular? Not dead yet? Is he worse than Christie? Or Wodehouse? Or so many other Folio authors one could pick out if one had a mind?

He, and others, did aim to make pictorial literature into, well, 'literature', but I guess we have to wait 50 or 100 years to determine whether they succeeded. And he has reached so many readers (and others via the various adaptations of his works) that he must have had an influence (positive or negative) on the opinions of many, many people so I think he is, for now at least, an important voice.

And he presumably shifts copies out of the warehouse at a very respectable rate, which keeps Folio ticking over nicely, which I hope we all want, and allows them to go ahead with some of the more unexpected choices they come up with. Win, win, in my book.

Personally, I am very happy that Folio are publishing him before I need a ouija board to read their beautifully done editions of his works :-)

>83 Cat_of_Ulthar: I agree, because who is then not good enough? I exactly thought about Christie or Stephen King! Many many people still say he isn’t an author, which I would passionately deny.

Ten years ago I wrote part of my bachelor‘s thesis about e-books and the decline of the hardcover book. Ten years ago, many many people were sure that the e-book will kill the book and the sales will decline more and more. Fortunately there has been a rise of publishers (new and small ones) doing fine editions and that is so wonderful! The possibility to get a book from Neil Gaiman in such a wonderful package, when years ago that would have been unthinkable and that now many people start to get into bibliophile that in itself is a good thing. (IMHO)

>77 woodstock8786: >78 antinous_in_london:
See https://www.librarything.com/topic/318782

>83 Cat_of_Ulthar: Totally agree with all this.

Conversations about 'Great Literature' or 'Great Art' drive me crazy sometimes. To use another pop culture reference, it reminds me of one of the opening scenes in Dead Poets Society when the start of the poetry textbook asks the students to plot the relative greatness of a poem on an X,Y axis.

It's worthwhile trying to determine where an artwork sits in relation to contemporaries and amongst the longer span of historically significant works, but it can get a little elitist and overly judgemental. If we always judged things on 'proven merit' there would be no innovation at all. Art evolves and exciting new things are created often in opposition to the establishment. There are countless examples of this through history - from impressionism, to Mozart choosing everyday librettos instead of the Greek myths for inspiration.

Personally, I think Neil Gaiman is extremely innovative and a game-breaker. (I didn't like American Gods that much, but loved Stardust, and really appreciate what he has done and is doing.)

>85 wcarter: The comments are almost as entertaining as the post !

>86 Jeremy53: Thank you.
I always find it pretentious when people act like their book, music, movie/tv show, videogame taste is sooo refined. So you only listen to old music, and watch "classic" movies?? Why are you looking down on people who listens to top 40 and watches violent over the top gory horror movie. People like different things. Get over it.

I made the mistake on replying on an insipid comment like "The last thing we needed was more fantasy" (on a thread about fantasy vote winners) and it came of really bitchy lol. Now I just roll my eyes and move on.

>88 HamburgerHelper: Yep, no worries. I think for some people it's "safe ground"; but also, it fits into a broader philosophy of looking at the world through the lens of a hierarchy. I really do understand, it's comforting to order the world in such a way.

What can be very disconcerting though are the disruptors...the ones who challenge the status quo...

I had to laugh recently when I was reading a comment in an extremely conservative Australian newspaper, and he was saying how such and such new building was cr*p and there was no comparison to the Sydney Opera House. (i.e. the new building was too 'modern' or whatever)

The conservatives *hated* the Opera House at the time...precisely because it broke all previous architectural norms. It's only in retrospect that such amazing creativity can be seen by the majority (I hasten to add, like everyone else, I often don't see such things at the time either!)

>88 HamburgerHelper:

I think I can understand something of the difficulty for some folk who have been led by the old membership model and what used to be a certain consistency in Folio Society publishing to think of the FS as an integral part or even an expression of their identities as readers and book collectors, in accepting that it's not what it used to be, it isn't theirs any more.

I sort of miss the FS I joined 23 years ago: I contentedly let it seduce me into buying and reading a variety of books that my idiosyncratic self-education had omitted. At worst their appeal to me would be slight. That wouldn't work today, there are too many books whose lumpen prose soon has me craving to be doing almost anything other than continuing to read. There's a Bevis Frond song with a line very like "the past is part of you, and you are part of it": a pointed message, but worth digesting.

This isn't about elitism. It's about Folio not putting enough effort into providing a diverse selection to appeal to different readers. They want to chase the popular scifi/fantasy crowd and fans of other genres are being ignored. Look at their releases since 2020.

2020 - ten releases of scifi/fantasy:
Dune LE
Games of Thrones (two titles)
Farseer Trilogy
Jurassic Park
Marvel (two titles)
Planet of the Apes
Rendezvous With Rama
Stranger in a Strange Land

2021 ten titles:
More Game of Thrones
La Bell Sauvage
Book of the New Sun
Captain America
Castle in the Air
House of Many Ways
The Lost World
Noughts and Crosses
Spider-Man
Complete Philip K Dick LE

2022 eight so far:
Cat's Cradle
Hulk
Neverwhere
Lord of the Rings (LE)
Gormenghast (LE)
PKD shorts (SE)
Tombs of Atuan
Wyndham Collection

Twenty-eight titles. If you are fans of those, your needs are being met. It is about 20% of everything they release in a year. That's a lot considering how many other genres there are in the world of books.

Personally, I'm not as into those. I like horror, modern fiction, and ancient history. For one example, the horror category in that same time period got four titles only. None at all in 2020, then Misery, Dracula (SE), a Dr. Jeckyll reprint, and Haunting of Hill House in 2022. So, a super popular mainstream title (King), a thing they've already done and every other publisher is also doing (Dracula), a reprint if an old version(Dr. Jeckyll), and Hill House, which (again) others like Centipede are also doing. That's not a lot to choose from.

The point is not "scifi/fantasy bad" it's "hey Folio, stop ignoring your other categories in your quest to pander to the scifi/fantasy crowd." Actually, I would also add the point to try harder to find interesting titles that aren't big franchises or pop movie tie-ins.

The only three categorisations I make are:

good books
indifferent books
bad books

As a septuagenarian I can say that over the years these have served me well. Leave all the other nonsense to Mr Dewey.

P.S. Also works for music..

P.P.S. >91 rsmac: I can't put my finger on it, but you posting style seems very familiar.

May I suggest a new thread titled “The Folio Society is publishing too much fantasy for my liking.” This thread is for the discussion of Neverwhere.

>94 mr.philistine:
What are you talking about?

>95 jroger1: A great question.

Mr. Gaiman is hardly a flash in the pan. He's been publishing close to forty years and is widely respected by readers and writers with significant accomplishments of their own.

One reason this invites an examination of Folio's decisions of late is that it is somewhat unusual to release an SE title seperately, especially this close to a collection announcement, as if it were an LE. I suspect it's because their very expensive Gormenghast still hasn't sold out and they want to create more buzz around Gaiman (who wrote the intro and signed Gormenghast) so they can move those last 156 copies.

But it is also signalling they want to be known for and specifically highlight their publishing of this type of scifi/fantasy. Of the 222 fiction titles currently listed in their store, 68 (nearly 1/3) are in the scifi/fantasy section. The directional shift compared to their former output is notable, especially with this "special" type of announcement drawing attention to it beyond whatever attention the other SEs coming up for autumn are likely to get.

>98 rsmac: It's not the first time they have released an SE around this this time of year separate to the Autumn release. Kafka on the Shore was last year and The Farseer Trilogy was the year before so it seems to be just part of their fixed release schedule.

>98 rsmac: Haven’t they been releasing one title early for the past couple of years?

>96 SDB2012: Mr. Gaiman is hardly a flash in the pan...

Neither are Playboy, Pokemon, Archie or Dragon Ball Z - who each have equally wide readerships and respect albeit from different sections of society. Numbers mean nothing in the pursuit and recognition of greatness.

>100 RRCBS: I was remembering them lumping in a few early LEs with following collections (like Hill House this past spring) but assemblyman's SE examples are correct. Although with Farseer it does support the emphasis on fantasy theory, although the Murakami doesn't exactly fit.

>102 rsmac: Nights at the Circus was another

>101 mr.philistine: Oh, please. Longevity is not THE key to greatness but surely career longevity is a component of it. If respect from knowledgeable readers is meaningless, what is meaningful? Harold Bloom isn't around anymore to tell us what to read. If numbers mean nothing in the pursuit of greatness, then what does mean something? Who among us is the all-knowing, all-seeing arbiter of quality?

By the way, in olden days Playboy published Mailer, Marquez, Bradbury, Atwood, Murakami, Vonnegut, and Kerouac among many other writers.

>104 SDB2012: Who among us is the all-knowing, all-seeing arbiter of quality?

Time and fate :)
Keep up.

One would think that here, of all the places, a thread regarding the frequency of SFF books being published by one single publisher would not somehow need to echo the pointless and divisive rhetoric from the "outside" regarding the "woke", but i guess we aren't just LibraryThing users, some of us are too much news or too much Facebook/Twitter/Truth (god forbid) consumers as well.

Nobody is obligated to like anything. There is no "or else" to it, unless one really revels in self-victimisation for some reason. I love The Lord of the Rings, i have read it in multiple languages, have bought the LE, have a tattoo as well! Yet, i do not feel the need to watch this current series as it is not for me. (The trailers were more than enough!) However, i am not going to go around accusing people of being "diseased" with somthing that my own imagination and persecution complex conjures up. Adaptations are just that...adaptations.

And if the indian Copperfield and the brown elves are such a big issue now, i hope it was just as ridiculous and offensive to see a white, british dude playing Gandhi!

And businesses can change over time. Wrigley's used to sell soap and baking powder, Nokia was a paper pulp mill, Tiffany was a stationery company, and so on and on. So, even something which is said in jest is not all that far from the truth. A company driven by profits will focus on whatever sells well.

And as much as i might want there to be more 18th and 19th century classics, the truth is they just don't sell all that well. Clearly. No matter how much one over-over-OVERquotes the same old stuff regarding the type of literature or the pricing, it won't change anything at all. Also, the chap has been gone for a while.

I do not consider Neil Gaiman to be one of the greats. I don't think it is elitist to say that at all. Art is not just subjective.

Nevertheless don't think that that is FS's criteria for publishing newer content. Nor does it need to be. They seem to be going for more popular books nowadays. I would rather that they go for truly iconic works, but Robin Hobb books are not iconic, they are pretty run off the mill fantasy. I am sure they would have eagerly published Brandon Sanderson's works too, if he hadn't been taking out those leatherbounds on his own on Kickstarter and stuff.

Tl, dr: Neil Gaiman doesn't seem equal to one of the greats to me, but that's ok. FS can try and appeal to more people to survive and make profit like any other business. There are plenty of people enjoying it as kne can see. If Spiderman and Superman can happen, why not Gaiman.

>106 sekhmet0108:

Just a note...

Sir Ben Kingsley (31 December 1943), born Krishna Pandit Bhanji, is an English actor...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Kingsley

I’ve often given my 2 cents on this, so will not rehash.

I have noticed, sadly, that the term woke has been used as a backhanded insult many times on LT lately. As a Canadian, I don’t really understand how being called woke could be used an an insult. But maybe I’m just out of touch (and fine with that!). I wish we could have the discussion about literature without attacking each other and without offensive, intolerant naming calling.

>108 RRCBS:

Frankly, I think it's mostly this group (of those dedicated to books) that has a vocal subgroup of people who use "woke", "social justice" etc. as insults.

>41 rsmac:
don't even mind them doing fantasy, but not to the extent they end up neglecting other genres. And if they really want to sell out, why not at least go for things less basic and common as Marvel or Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones? Ok, some Gaiman, but multiple Gaiman titles? Aren't there other ideas they can come up with? Same with doing new versions of things they have already released. They already did Gormenghast a couple times, as recently as 2011. Did we need another so soon? There was a Dracula in 2008, now here it comes again in another version, in both an LE and SE. There's a big world of literature, Folio. Certainly you can come up with more inspired options.

Totally agree. I don't really do LEs nowadays, and my purchasing of SE fiction has almost entirely dried up - I have bought one full price fiction book from them in the past 5 years, after years of a dozen books or more (on top of non-fiction, which is also drying up a bit for me). Partly spiralling costs, but also because when it comes to the sort of books I like (eg 19C classics) its pretty much the same old same old (which is what my commentary is probably becoming like too, so will leave it there!).

>107 LolaWalser: Ah, thank you so much for letting me know!! I had no idea whatsoever!

>108 RRCBS: As a Canadian, I don’t really understand how being called woke could be used an an insult.

"The woke outlook is fundamentally elitist. At its heart lies an assumption that some are too ignorant and others too vulnerable to be allowed to control their own lives and shape their nation. Woke reveals itself to be anti-democratic and censorious when policies aimed at curtailing debate are enacted, either by private social-media companies or national governments. When GB News - an alternative television-news station - launched in the UK in 2021, woke culture warriors immediately began a campaign to get advertisers to withdraw from the channel. They saw the prospect of anti-woke discussion as so dangerous that it had to be nipped in the bud." -from Joanna Williams, How Woke Won.

Even so, has the term been used here as an insult, or just, as it seems to me, as a way of referring to a tendency the poster doesn't like - much as another poster in the thread used the term "conservative"? I don't like it either, and the little eruption of flags for a recent post is a tiny instance of why I don't like it - its habitual will to silence, to make disappear, opinions and perspectives that offend it just by being held and confessed. I don't see that the post in question can be held to have contravened any of the site's terms and conditions.

>112 terebinth: I wasn’t aware that the post was flagged. If people want to flag and the admin thinks the post was flag worthy, oh well. I barely use social media and find the whining of those complaining about people trying to consider be aware of their own prejudice and privilege annoying. I won’t say anything else. This isn’t a forum for that kind of debate. My original comment was around people not making disgusting comments. Someone can like Neil Gaiman without causing an outburst of insults against those who care about being fair to everyone in society.

>105 mr.philistine: Okay. So instead of objective measurements, let's just yell get off my lawn to anyone that doesn't meet our own taste. +)

For what it's worth, I've only read three Gaiman stories. American Gods which lost interest in halfway through, Death and Honey which I thoroughly enjoyed and House at the End of the Lane which I thought was okay. My point remains, in every field of human endeavor I'm aware of, expert opinion is counted as a measure of quality. No one is saying he's Shakespeare or Milton, but why not publish a respected writer people will buy?

Getting back on track. Has anyone received a copy of Neverwhere? How is it?

>114 SDB2012: I highly recommend reading Stardust. I thought Stardust was one of the finest modern fantasy works I have ever read. Gaiman captures the spirit of fairy tales in a way no other modern writer has. In many ways I think it's better than Sandman or any other work of his I have read.

>114 SDB2012: Once again, at the risk of drawing the ire of fantasy lovers... your premise of expertise and respectability is largely subjective. And if you have not already guessed it by now, I will not be seduced or swayed by any argument to the contrary. But FS don't need my permission or blessing to proceed and neither do lovers and buyers. Isn't that a relief? :)

>115 Geo135:

I bought it within an hour or so of it going live / on the 1st of September for a friend and myself, and I haven't even got a shipping confirmation yet. Which is frankly a bit irritating - they usually do better than this. It makes me wonder why. The release of one book can hardly have overwhelmed their shipping system?

FYI -- Easton Press has released signed editions of I believe, pretty much every single novel Gaiman has written, including Neverwhere. Currently, in stock they have the following:



I'll be the first to say the covers are not exactly imaginative nor wonderful. That said, the books themselves are lovely and personally signed by Gaiman which I do very much care about. I think the FS editions in general are more beautiful especial with the wonderful art, BUT, they not signed - and I realize for many people that's not an issue. I will also add, that while the FS edition is £85 for UK costumers, which consequently amounts to $98 - the FS is asking... $140 for North American patrons! That is more than a 40% increase in price!
Quite honestly, forget that. I would rather purchase the EP edition if for no other reason than simply to tell the FS that such price differentials are not acceptable and I won't be patronizing them until they get their act together.

Think this looks great; it went on my wishlist and will likely purchase when the new collection is released (other wishlist candidates include Fear and Loathing, A Walk in the Woods, Syria, India: A History). Curious to check out more Gaiman, the artwork looks very appropriate, and I'm almost always really happy with the quality of Folio books in this price range.

I also second the idea of a separate thread dedicated to lengthy laments for bygone Folio days of yore. Maybe it could be called "Make Folio Great Again" and rather than those red baseball caps that have been seen around the States for the last little while, some sort of Royal Navy tricorn (complimentarily emblazoned with this inspirational call to arms) could be issued to top posters ;-)

>120 jsavoy: ..separate thread... red baseball caps... Royal Navy tricorn... top posters ;-)

Why increase thread counts when differing opinions can co-exist harmoniously, albeit a tad begrudgingly? The same applies to baseball caps or Royal Navy insignia, when red flags will do just fine :)

>102 rsmac: Although with Farseer it does support the emphasis on fantasy theory, although the Murakami doesn't exactly fit.

Kafka on the Shore, winner of the World Fantasy Award 2006.

>119 astropi:

I knew about these Gaimans, and they clearly sell well. And yes, signed is nice. But the covers don't have anything whatsoever to do with the books and most Easton Press editions aren't illustrated. (I think there was a version of Graveyard Book with the McKean illustrations, but I'm not sure about that one.) So I definitely prefer the FS versions (and some illustrated ones by other publishers, e. g. Subterranean Press, Lyra's, Areté).

That being said, I understand the frustration with the pricing policy of FS for some countries. As has been said before, they should just let people pay in Pounds and charge realistic shipping fees (not using the - in my experience - most expensive company on the market in DHL Express might help there), problem solved. It's definitely off-putting when prices are raised like this compared to buyers in other countries.

>124 SF-72: I’m a little surprised about complaints with shipping costs. If I purchase 1 book from Centipede press the shipping is $80 to the U.K. How much do you think it should cost to get a book from the U.K. to the US?

>125 DMulvee: Same. I think it’s expensive if you buy just one book, but the FS rate for multiple books is pretty standard in my experience. Shocked by the Centipede price!

>124 SF-72: “As has been said before, they should just let people pay in Pounds and charge realistic shipping fees.”

And that is what other companies outside the U.S. that I deal with do, allowing the credit card bank to apply the currency conversion fairly. The fact that FS refuses to do so is what generates the suspicion that something nefarious is going on.

But regardless of who is at fault, whether it is shipping, taxation, or FS pricing, the cost of getting one of their books is no longer worth it unless it is a truly special one.

>123 Levin40: Yeah, I read lots of Murakami about 20 years ago when I took a job in Japan. Calling his work fantasy seems like a stretch. It's more a modern Japanese take on "magical realism."

>125 DMulvee: Somehow Slightly Foxed is able to ship from the UK to the US for £2, and I just bought a used Folio on Abebooks that's being shipped from the UK for $5.51. I'm not saying I expect Folio to match that exactly, but there are clearly cheaper options than what they're using--and I find the Slightly Foxed books arrive faster than Folio's as well.

>129 ambyrglow: The books I've had shipped from the UK with the vastly cheaper rate seem to take about the same time as Folio books. Some UK sellers on Abe are charging way more than Folio and those take about three weeks, too. I just don't get how these sellers are coming up with their pricing on standard sized books.

>129 ambyrglow: >130 rsmac: Mega booksellers have volume-based contracts/ accounts with mail service providers. Many of my parcels that arrive via International Priority do not have a postage cost printed but a 'Customer Ref. No.' for the seller. Small and independent booksellers will never be able to match those rates and often say so upfront. Also, partial cost of shipping could be embedded within the item cost.
Back in 2017(?), a flat shipping rate of £7 was charged for any number of SALE items. Whether FS still maintain such an account but refuse to pass on savings to buyers, I do not know.

>131 mr.philistine: Since Slightly Foxed is (as far as I know) a significantly smaller outfit than Folio Society, I remain unclear about why their rates are so much better and their speed so much faster.

I've just priced a 6kg parcel in a Folio sized box (five books including one big one - Ulysses), also a copy of Anansi Boys at 1.22kg in a smaller box both with DHL on a 3-day rate from a pick-up shop to a residential address in the U.S. It came out at £81.33 ($94.33) and £54.80 ($63.56) respectively, not including the weights of my imaginary boxes. Add sales tax which I have not done (none for books in UK of course), nor insurance and processing charges but there you are. It's expensive - And assuming Neverwhere is the same weight and size as Anansi Boys, and costs £85 ($98.58) you end up with a total of £139.80 ($162.14) before further addons.

All approximate, and Folio would have some business rate (the one I have used is the only one DHL give for online quotes), but you can see that the wild prices are not entirely plucked out of thin air but have some tenuous connection to reality. It's just an expensive business...

DHL is of course not the cheapest courier, but it's a fairly popular one in the UK. We get our standard Folio stuff delivered by Satan's messengers, The Company Formerly Known As Hermes - Evri. These are the cheapest and worst possible with an appalling reputation. I don't think Folio would risk a similar courier for overseas orders.

>132 ambyrglow: Because with shipping size and weight matter. Once you are over a certain weight, prices go crazy. Slightly Foxed produces books which are small and light - and that allows them to fit into a different category.

>125 DMulvee: I don't have a problem with shipping costs. The problem is that the FS is charging their US customers far more than their UK customers and they never explained why. If they were to say "we charge foreign customers an extra 20% to offset shipping etc" I would have no problem with that. I would also argue they should just charge us the same as UK and give us the full shipping costs to be clear. However, they have never said anything like that. In fact, they apparently said that their pricing for international customers is "not transparent". What does that mean? To me, it sounds like they're saying "yeah, we charge you more because we can". The new Neverwhere is priced so that North American patrons pay over 40% what UK customers pay! Oh, and that is before shipping and taxes.

>135 astropi: I completely agree that users should have the freedom to pay in £ and think this is very poor of them to charge such a high mark up to those overseas without any explanation as to why they do this.

However I do think the shipping is reasonable compared with other companies, so feel it is important to keep the main complaint on the exchange rate they use

>134 AnnieMod: Furthermore, Slightly Foxed incorporate the UK postage costs into the price of the book, so the reason they are charging £2 for shipping to the US is not that they can ship the book to the US for £2, but the difference (for their rather small books) between their costs for UK postage and US postage is £2.

It is still a good deal, nonetheless. Folio could and should be doing better with overseas postage. Royal Mail costs soared during COVID, but have dropped back down recently, for untracked parcels in particular.

>137 TheEconomist: Yep, there is that as well.

Folio sends tracked though, even for regular shipment (at least the last few orders I did last year were all tracked and they were standard shipping to USA). So there is that.

>125 DMulvee:

I actually didn't mean that the current shipping rate is necessarily too expensive per book, though judging by what I pay it is for small purchases, while prices are good for large ones. But I suspect that they could find an option with better rates than DHL Express. I've compared prices of reliable shippers often enough to see that they are the most expensive one out there. And I wouldn't compare FS to companies like Suntup or Subterranean Press, both of which have steep shipping rates (at least as much as a private person would pay to USPS, despite business rates) and also don't use options that could be better as well as cheaper. But I meant what astropi wrote in post 135. People in the US and Australia seem to feel that shipping fees are hidden in the much higher prices they have to pay for books due to the fact that they aren't allowed to pay in Pounds and the prices are then considerably higher in the other currency. This has been explained by FS with fluctuations in the exchange rate. But then why not just let people pay in Pounds? It seems fairer to me to let them pay in Pounds and the same price as people elsewhere, and then make shipping fees more transparent if they're actually the reason for the price difference. And stop using DHL unless there's really no other option. When I buy something that needs secure shipping with a courier from the UK, US or Canada, UPS or FedEx have always been cheaper and provided a more customer-friendly service, as least in Germany. There are other options out there, too, but no need to go into every detail here.

To summarise: I can understand that FS need to cover the cost of international shipping, but if that's what going on with those higher prices in some countries, they should be more transparent about it.

>124 SF-72: I just purchased Graveyard Book from Easton Presx, and can confirm it does contain Dave McKean's illustrations.

..

>141 tkidcharlemagne:
I'm no fan of Neil Gaiman, but to describe him as part of a race to the bottom is, to say the least, IMO a huge exaggeration. As to appealing to a market that doesn't really exist - I would suggest that their dive further and further into fantasy etc is exactly because they've tapped into a market and found it rewarding. I'd agree about being in danger of losing one they already had/have - but assume they've done the maths, and reckon that losing the likes of me as a regular buyer is worth it if they gain others and more. Personally, that saddens me, but I'm finding ways to compensate!

I received Neverwhere today and am very happy with this edition. The illustrations fit the book very well and aren't 'just' pretty art like so many are. There's a depth of meaning to several of the ones I looked at on a first look through the book. The slipcase is very well made, I like how the cloth of the book feels, and the number of illustrations is generous, I like the style, too. For my taste, this is excellent work, like Anansi Boys was, but in a different and suitable style to this story. In hindsight, I wish FS had been at this point in their development when they did American Gods. It's good and I like the illustrations, but Anansi Boys and Neverwhere just took things a lot further. American Gods was still more like a traditional release. So great job, a wonderful book. I'm very happy with my purchase.

>145 SF-72: Whilst I like Neil Gaiman but don't feel the need to buy the FS editions, I do like how the designers/illustrators get to cut loose for the FS editions. You could never say that any of the FS editions released so far look alike.

>145 SF-72: my biggest gripe with American Gods is that it says “Folio Society” and has the “FS” symbol. I don’t know why it just bothers me

>147 Geo135: I know, infuriating, isn't it?

If Folio books were sold in shops, then there would at least be some point to this, which seems very like putting long anti-piracy warnings at the beginning of Blu-Rays, that are only watched by people who have bought them. Naturally, pirate copies have the warning edited out.

We know who publishes our books -we have just given them a lot of money. American Gods with its two versions of their logo taking up a quarter of the spine is just too much, especially as it is also printed on the back slipcase in case you thought of escaping from it ...