The obligatory intro

I've been a fan of Joss's since I first started watching Buffy way back on TV3. Then there was Angel, and Firefly, plus comics like Fray and the X-Men.

I suppose it is really his characters that I love. that and the dialogue he writes. It may not always be too close to reality, but it is alway believable.

I'm a huge fan of Joss. I started watching Buffy when I was a teenager, but I didn't really get into it until I discovered Angel in reruns on TNT a few years ago and then eventually went back and rediscovered both Buffy and Firefly.

I love the characters, and I love the mythology and world he creates. I just cannot get enough.

I'm pretty active in the lj fandom community for Buffy and Angel and write a lot of fanfiction, though I've recently drifted away somewhat from the Buffyverse and focused more on Lost and Veronica Mars.

I'm also "allthesedarnbooks".

Hi there! My dad introduced me to Buffy when it first came out, but it didn't stick until the end of Season 3/beginning of 4, when I was a junior in college. I love the characters, particularly Spike, Willow before they did the whole after-school-drug-special thing, and darnit, nearly everyone.

Recently I've come to the conclusion that while I don't like Angel, Firefly is one of the best darn shows I've ever seen on television. Took me awhile to come around, but in terms of character development, world-building, and consistency, it's a cryin' shame that show got cancelled.

Look forward to interesting discussion here. Oh, and I'm also on LJ, same name, though I haven't written any Buffy fic beyond some crackular meta stuff. I'm an active reader, though!

finally! i knew there would be whedon freaks out there ;) i'm not so much into doing the fanfic thing, but i have been on TV talking about why Buffy's so kickass while dressed as a pixie (believe me, it's a way to impress your students). my friend once said very wisely that i love btvs because it's all about how research and libraries can save the world. which is a good point, but doesn't explain firefly. i think the dialogue, the structure of the narrative arc, the character development are all brilliant in both shows (angel is kind of a black hole, especially after the whole connor shark-jump-fest). but let's face it, it's all about the thrill of girls who hit back ;)

any fiction that reminds you of the whedonverse? i'm always looking for things to fill the hole.

I got hooked on Firefly when it first aired, and converted a number of friends and family. I later got into Angel thanks to TNT like marcia_g. I'm not a huge Buffy fan, although I have a lot of respect for the series (too suburban to click with me).

Unfortunately, other than the Serenity comics, the Whedonverse has relatively little representation in my library.

Unfortunately, I've never found any fiction that can really rival the Whedonverse in its scope, character building and wit. The closest I've ever come was my introduction to vampires, and probably my first fannish obsession even before I discovered Buffy, L.J. Smith's Night World books.

On a different note, has anyone here read Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Philosophy? It's definitely one I want to acquire.

My lj name, btw, is maybedarkpink.

I've read bits and pieces of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Philosophy, but like most of these popculture analyses, I have trouble with the tone. They're all either too rooted in the kind of criticism that I personally don't find based on anything or their too obvious. But that's just my take; I still own it, and others like it.

In terms of authors, I can't say why I'm saying this, but anyone who hasn't read Diana Wynne Jones really ought to. I can't figure why they go together, so no worries if you hate her, but she writes fantastic "young adult" style fantasy that is very much rooted both in real life and relationships and in various mythologies. I think most people here would enjoy it.

yayy, love Buffy, love being able to claim to be a Buffy buff. If I went to the gym more often, I could be a buff Buffy buff.... Sorry, I'll stop now. Never watched Buffy until I read a review of the first show that talked about the reversal of the old cliche with boy and girl in empty building, she is nervous, he is horny and reassuring, but instead of the expected attack from him or a maniac, she turns into a vampire and kills him. That description really intrigued me, so I started watching videos from the local video store. Now I own all seven seasons on DVD. Was reluctant to get into Angel, but eventually got desperate after we had watched Buffy 3 or 4 times. Now I like Angel just as much, perhaps more. Now I must buy Firefly. Loved Serenity.

I enjoyed the books of essays called seven seasons of buffy and five seasons of angel. Haven't read any others on the philosophy, but would be interested.
I understand the Diana Wynne Jones connection, I_aurens. There is a lot of discussion of her in both fantasy and British and Irish childrens books group discussions. Can't figure why she isn't better known.

Anybody know what Joss Whedon is doing next?

Sorry, marcia_g, what is the "lj fandom community?".

deliriumslibrarian I think the Phillip Pulman books deliver the same kick as Buffy. Very, very different in tone and content but grab you by the throat in a similar way. Also, Lois McMaster Bujold's Vorkorsigan series.

akenned, lj is livejournal.

I think in some respects Frank Miller's Sin City has a Whedonesque tinge. I couldn't speak to his other stuff, because yes I've only read Sin City, and yes, it's because of the movie (well, actually, the trailer; i.e., trailer>comics>movie), and yes, that makes me a horrible person.

Some of Alfred Bester's dystopian futures might link up to the firefly readership. (I'm thinking especially of The Deceivers and The Stars My Destination.)

And Raphael Carter's The Fortunate Fall has sort of a mix of the female mythos of Buffy and the anti-future-fascism of Firefly, in addition to being one of the single best works of science fiction ever constructed.

What do you see as the similarity between Firefly and Bester's work? I don't see it, but I'm curious.

Well, The Deceivers and The Stars My Destination share the same basic political structure (inner planets/outer planets, civilized/frontier, futuristic/retro-futuristic, and in both cases the solar system offers a plethora of mostly dysfunctional and highly diverse mini-societies), and The Deceivers in particular asks the same geopolitical question re: the future relationship of European and Asian culture, although Bester takes the separatist rather than the syncretic route.

Bester also deals with the problems of emerging superhumans, and the social and psychological distance that exists between them and normal humans. And he also has a certain moral fuziness that is probably not the same as Whedon's moral fuziness, but still.

This is specific to those two books; I see little connection between The Demolished Man or Psychoshop (my two favorite Bester works) and Whedon, let alone The Computer Connection or Golem 100.

BTW, I know Bester's not the only writer to use the inner/outer planets distinction, but he's the one I'm most familiar with.

An easier connection might be Poul Anderson's Harvest of Stars, et al., since Anderson's libertarian political perspective bears some resemblance to the political philosophy of Firefly. I think that connection wasn't the first in my mind because Anderson's books in that series constitute a sort of epic future history, as opposed to a series of local portraits mapping out more a sense of place and of the lives of ground-level people, which I think Bester gets a bit closer to in The Deceivers.

Sorry, that was a bit much.

Wow, I'm impressed at the number of members :) Nice to see Joss fans around.

akenned5 Re message 8; it isn't quite definite what Joss will be doing next. It'll be a film, but there is a choice of two. One is Wonder Woman, so obviously adapting the comics/character into a film of his own. the other is Goners. Which is totally his own, written and dir by him. From what I've read on the web (so maybe not so reliable) he has a deal to do both, and at the moment WW looks more likely.

According to reliable (film journo) sources, Joss has sold Goners in order to focus on WW.

thanx to all who chipped in with Whedonesqueness. I'm gonna check out Fortunate Fall, which looks intriguing.

Any Terry Moore fans out there? Or Chynna Clugston Major? I think they both have Buffy spirit ;)

Really deliriumslibrarian? Interesting, I think I'd prefer to see his Goners, but I suppose he can't do everything :)

Okay, I am willing to say I am a Whedonverse junkie.

I initially started with the movie Buffy the Vampire Slayer, hooked onto the TV show out of morbid curiosity. Stayed with it until the best writers went to Angel and jumped ship. (especially when they changed the whole "Willow is not going to be a cliche lesbian witch" stance.) Watched Angel until they started playing with what day it would show. When Firefly came on, I hated Fox for not just sticking to their schedule and constantly moving it. Saw the movie, it's in the collection in an honored place. Most frequently watched, just after Down Periscope.

I'm not a huge comic book collector, so I don't know much of his comic works.

akenned5: I have trouble getting into the Vorkosigan series. Does that have to be read in a particular order?

Whedon-fan since the Buffy days. Started with the movie, then the show, then I began getting hooked on Angel until Lindsey was no more. I had only been watching it because the rivalry/relationship between Lindsey and Lilah were like that of myself and my then best friend. Weird, but whatever. That, and the whole Pylea thing just didn't pump my gnads. Stuck with Buffy 'til the end, and couldn't really follow Spike to Angel. It was just... yeah. Joss was trying to hard to keep the Buffy thing going. If it had to end, just let it be already. JEEZ xD

Never got into Firefly, sadly. Just not my cuppa.

Did I ever say I'm bad with intros? Well, I am. My name is Mis and I'm a twenty year old Whedonaholic.

Grrrr... First message got lost.
gilroy, sorry to take so long to respond to your question. I must have had a stroke or something, didn't see it earlier.

The series begins with Shards of Honor, then Barrayar, but I think the later books, which introduce Miles Vorkorsigan, the son of the protagonists in the first two books, are really much more fun. The first Miles book, which is 3rd chronologically in the series, is Warrior's Apprentice, followed by The Vor Game. I suggest you start there, then work back if you like them.
cheers!

Hello!

I got into Firefly last year (before Serenity came out), and was completely shocked that I hadn't watched it before. It's a brilliant combination of western and science fiction, and the characters are amazing. I can't choose a favorite.

I had the honor of getting to meet Alan Tudyk in July, and he's incredibly nice. :D

I was never a big fan of Buffy or Angel, strangely enough, but I love Joss's writing both on Firefly and in his run on Astonishing X-Men.

Nice to be here. :)

Anyone else here excited about Whedon's just-announced turn at Runaways? I picked up the series with Brian K. Vaughan's 2nd volume and I've been really digging it. I'm definitely looking forward to more of Whedon's signature character development.

I've heard very good things about Runaways, but never read any.

deliriumslibrarian, Have you tried Meg cabot's Mediator series? First book: Shadowland. (Yeah, I know Meg Cabot????? but, trust me.)

A high school girl has to help dead people cross over, kicking a minor amount of butt while she does.

Oh, I forgot. Deed of Paksennarion by Elizabeth Moon is also about a strong young woman warrior type.

Admittely not whedon, but a good alternative while you're waiting for him to come out with his next project.

OK, just one more time.

The Dresden Files (a series by Jim Butcher) has Harry, a modern-day wizard, fighting evil on the streets of Chicago.

Sci Fi is filming episodes based on the book and the TV series is set to premier in January. James Marsters (Spike) is one of the actors (not the main one, though.)

Can't wait.

I'm new, and I thought I'd post, since I really, really like Buffy. Don't like Angel nearly so much. I'm also tv-less, so my pop culture is limited to what I can get through Netflix.

I'm with you, alida. I never could get into Angel. And I really did try. I have lots of friends who really got it, but something just seemed off to me.

So does anyone think tv's Heroes falls into the universe we're talking about?

Well, we do have the butt-kicking cute blonde female leads. We have the man with visions of the future. We have the geek factor. Yep, looks like Heroes does indeed follow the Whedon Master Plan...

I've heard good things about Heroes. It hasn't arrived over here yet, but hopefully at some point in the future.

Well, I like Heroes a lot, but it's important to remember that it's 99.9% recycled ideas. It's basically Mutant X with better promotion.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0283203/

As long as I bear that in mind, I have a great time while watching it.

True, but it's all about access. Mutant X is gone. Heroes is here.

Whedon fans might try Daniel Keys Moran, but I'll warn you that his major series will likely never be finished. Kind of a Firefly feeling.

I just wanted to say hi. I'm a big Firefly/Serenity fan, and the group name just jumped out at me. I hope to see some more action on this group!

hello

I'm a whedonite from the original Buffy film - where the writing seemed at odds with the casting and production choices - got hooked on BtVS and Angel and am always interested in everything this writer/director has to share.

Saw the group name and wanted to give everyone a wave 'allo!

There's a fab Season 8 picture here :-

http://www.cgspodcast.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=105175&sid=023368150bf0602bf...

Grrr, arggg!
The Buffster kicks vampire ass! Yeah for girl power that's not afraid to be "girly!" Ok, so how do you suppose BtVS is "suburban?" I don't get the correlation....

"What Would Buffy Do?" is a good read about the spiritual / moral themes presented in Buffy....

Anyway, so writer Tim Minear has his new show on FOX - Drive. What does everyone think? Mr. Fillion is looking good, as per usual. I hope the network doesn't kill it the way they killed Firefly. The only evidence of brightness they've shown is keeping the Simpsons and House -- so far....

Drive has already been killed, after only 2 weeks. It's a shame, because I think the story could have gotten good. It was a little weak because they were building up the plot and suspense, and some of the writing wasn't top notch, but it had potential. Of course, it figures that FOX would get rid of it without giving it a chance.

At least Bones is still on...

Re Bones (#40) - Is that show good? I don't like the books it is based on, so I haven't bothered watching it. Despite the fact that David B is in it.

#41 - I enjoy Bones a lot. It's a neat twist on the whole CSI phenomenon... a new case each week, but the scientists are kind of awkward, especially Bones herself, and they usually come to the solution by a very roundabout way. The writers and producers are also not afraid to make some episodes off the charts... in the first season, Bones goes to New Orleans to help with Katrina cleanup only to have a voodoo curse put on her. David B's character is very funny (he shot an ice cream truck out of frustration in one episode) and has some of the best lines... Good to see a Buffy alum every week.

Alyson Hannigan on How I Met Your Mother is another case of hurray-for-Buffy-alums.

I loved Buffy and Firefly and liked (but didn't love) Angel.

Joss Whedon is writing/producing Season 8 of Buffy in comic form. The first four comics are out already. Each book is supposed to be an "episode" of season 8, but don't get too excited; comics are short and it doesn't really compare to watching the show.

I recommend the following books, which have some of the "family of friends" aspect and some of the comedy and complex characters of the Whedonverse. They all have some degree of mystery to them.

Trojan Gold by Elizabeth Peters is a funny mystery that takes a piece of real history and rewrites it. The characters are fabulous. This isn't the first in the series; they're all good, but this is the best. It takes place in southern Germany.

The Historian by Elizabeth Kostova is about a family of academic researchers who spend lots of time in libraries tracking down Dracula. Most of it takes place in England and Eastern Europe.

Bad Kitty by Michele Jaffe is written for teenagers, but is a fun read for adults too. The narrator has some of Buffy's style/language.

The Spellman Files by Lisa Lutz is about a family of wacky (but not annoying wacky) detectives. This one will be ideal for anyone who loved Veronica Mars.

The Prisoner of Trebekistan by Bob Harris is a very funny and poignant memoir and the author does have a connection to the Whedonverse. Joss Whedon himself recommended this book!

Happy reading!

Hi!
Quick question for anyone out there. How did you catalog both copies of Serenity? I have my old one, but now I have the Collector's edition and I can't figure out how to get the second copy in. Using ISBNs, I have been able to get duplicate copies of books in, but I'm stymied by the dvds.
Thanks so much,
Kate

#44: What's new/different on the Collector's Edition? In your opinion, is it worth the second purchase?

The first dvd I bought was the region 2 offered here in Switzerland which apparently offers many extra features that the U.S. version did not. Whedon said that he would not release a "collector's edition" for the sake of releasing another version, so there is a whole new cast commentary track and some other new stuff as well. I bought it because I love Firefly. I'm not a Browncoat by any stretch, but I feel that Firefly/Serenity were stupefyingly undervalued and any little thing I could do, I would. For less than eighteen bucks I can support a story worth telling.
For real differences, check out the reviews on amazon, whedonesque.com, etc...
I ended up being able to catalog them separately, it just took some fiddling.

#46: I will more than likely end up buying it for similar reasons - what is it about Joss that makes one root for him so earnestly? And I should have guessed that Joss wouldn't try to pull a fast one on us; he's just not that kind of guy. Besides, the more Mal on my dvd shelves, the better, no?

I just found this group, know that there must be fellow LTers who felt as I do about Joss. I saw BtVS inthe theaters the first week it came out and loved the camp. When the show started I thought "how could they do that?" so I didn't watch until Season 2, when some college friends made me try it and I became obsessed. I enjoyed Angel enough that I have them all on DVD, you just have to be in a different mood for them, and remember that Joss didn't actually do as much with that show.

I think some other show was on at the same time as Firefly and I stupidly didn't watch it while it was on, but I have that on DVD now too and I loved Serenity! I haven't read his comics, just becasue I never seem to be able to get to the store for them and I'm really looking forward to Dollhouse, despite the fact that I'm not the biggest Dushku fan.

As for books, I don't think like that when it comes to books. But I'll try any show that has a former cast member or a former writer from the show, except Moonlight, I hear it's good, but it seems like such a ripoff. Has anyone watched it?

I watched an episode of moonlight, mainly because Logan from Veronica Mars is on it and i thought ok i'll watch...It is good but it's no Angel.

Hi everyone I'm Mandy Biblioholic29's sister, and one of our favorite things to do together back in the day was watch Buffy.

I miss those days...:( oh Joss!

#42 -- yay Buffy alums!

I have also caught Nicky a few times on...hmmmm, some crime show -- was it NCIS? Law and Order?

Oh and Mr. Marsters must be on Supernatural now -- I've seen him in promos.

And Tony Head was on an episode of Doctor Who -- he played a villain!

Nicholas Brendon is guest-starring on Criminal Minds as Penelope Garcia's boyfriend and fellow computer programmer for the FBI's BAU.

James Marsters has been on Without a Trace this season.

I was thrilled to see Nicholas Brendon. Did he have that tattoo on Buffy? Cause I don't remember it.

I have to say, I didn't recognize James Marsters when he first appeared on Without a Trace. No blond plastic hair and no accent I expected, but his voice is just totally different.

Hey fellow Whedon lovers! James Marsters has a recurring role on the TV series TORCHWOOD, as one of Captain Jack's love interests (both characters are bisexual) -- a neat touch. Marsters' character is named John, and he still has that touch of the devil in him, which makes him so very intriguing!

Loved Buffy, and watched it religiously with my then young teenaged children. Enjoyed Angel until they weaseled out of raising Conner and had him taken to a hell dimension -- a terrible cop-out. But the last season kind of redeemed the series for me -- and unlike that AWFUL last episode of Buffy (totally out of character for so many of my favorites, IMHO), the last episode of Angel, dark as it was, seemed totally fitting (if terribly depressing).

And what can one say about the inimitable Firefly? Whedon rocks. My kids saw Alan Tudyk too, at DragonCon, and think he's just awesome.

One of these posts suggested folks looking for Whedon-like characters, great plots, and terrific dialogue check out Lois McMaster Bujold's Vorkosigan series. I couldn't agree more -- but please read them in chronological order, to fully appreciate the evolution of the main characters.

I'd also like to recommend the Elizabeth Moon books Hunting Party, Sporting Chance and Winning Colors books. Doris Egan's books about the world of Ivory are also great -- particularly her first, The Gate of Ivory. Egan is also the executive producer, I think, of the TV series House.

And another book featuring a strong heroine, beautifully well-written, is Marta Randall's The Sword of Winter.

"you can't take the sky from me. . ."

I was really disappointed with the Buffy Finalle. But I think Angel finalle was one of the best episodes. I cry everytime I see it.

I liked Angel, and I grew up with Buffy. Like the current "season 8" a lot, and Fray--Whedon's stuff gets some killer artist.

But it's Firefly and all things born of it that own my heart. I'll watch those DVDs until they melt, I swear. Why, oh why does the best show get the worst treatment?

Now I must forever seek some of that thrill from books. Focks Network can't cancel what's printed and on my shelf....

Firefly may just be the best sci/fi show of all time - and this is from a die-hard Trekkie.

I found the Buffy finale incredibly disappointing -- it seemed to my family that Whedon just ran out of steam and wanted to be done with that show. However, I totally agree that the ANGEL finale was one of their best episodes. A very intense emotional experience and a totally fitting end to the series. Perfect in every detail. Sigh.

i'm a Buffy fan first and foremost - and I loved the last episode, myself - but also enjoyed Firefly and Serenity, and quite a lot of Angel - though, to me, Angel was never really a compelling enough character to build a series around. (Can I survive saying that here?)

I blogged about my reluctant conversion into a Watcher (of Buffy) here:

http://timjonesbooks.blogspot.com/2008/06/if-apocalypse-comes-beep-me.html

I am enjoying the Season 8 comics, which I'm buying as they are collected into the 5-issue editions, though the second volume is a big improvement on the first in my opinion:

http://timjonesbooks.blogspot.com/2008/07/buffy-vampire-slayer-season-8-volume-2...

Haven't seen "Dr Horrible" yet - outside the US, that costs money!

I'm a huge fan of Whedon, despite my upset with his tendency to kill any character in a happy relationship.

A friend turned me on to Buffy and I have since sought out all of Whedon's stuff, no matter how dark it gets sometimes.

But I have to say, although my favorite is probably Firefly TV series, my least favorite is Serenity. It was just so weak! It just felt like everything we already saw in the series, but less well written. What did others think?

I feel very much the opposite. I loved Serenity and felt like it helped to tell a lot of story we missed out on by the cancellation of Firefly. Certainly, it might have been even better given the chance to let the story play out over 13 episodes, but as that wasn't an option, the movie did everything it needed to. I was particularly glad to have the movie focus on the Reavers, as they disappeared from the series fairly early on. It also explained more exactly what had been done to River. Not to mention, I know a number of people who saw and loved Serenity which led them to experience Firefly, which is also great!

I loved Serenity too. I did find that some of it made more sense after I saw the Firefly DVD with the three episodes that were not aired. Certainly those episodes explained a lot of Mal's attitude in Serenity.

Great group! Trolling through the group list, and look what gems can be found!

A coworker of mine lent me his DVD set of Firefly and I watched it all at once when I was out of town in the Netherlands a few years ago. Totally hooked. Then he lent me Serenity, which I watched twice, back-to-back. Completely addicted.

Bought my own copies, introduced my husband to them, and Serenity is one of the most viewed DVDs at our house. I just love it.

I never did catch much Buffy or Angel originally. Maybe I'll do the same thing with those series one of these days.

Here's hoping for lots more Whedon magic!

Hello, newbie Whedon fan here. Found him through Firefly and Serenity, and loved Dr. Horrible. Didn't know he had anything to do with Toy Story, but I loved that too. I haven't watched Buffy, I have a severe allergy to shows geared to teens, however, I might give it a try just because of all the comments I've read and because of Joss.

62> Buffy was the "gateway drug" that addicted me to the Whedon-verse. Just start with the TV series and not the movie. The movie was kind of fun (in a dumb way), but the tv series is so much better. It is about teens, but not exactly what I would call "geared to teens." From your postings on LT, I think you'll like it.

>62 MrsLee:
I'm a Firefly/Serenity/Dr. Horrible only Whedon fan. I strongly dislike* Buffy.

*I'm being generous. Can't stand the show.

64> you're not alone, but I think Buffy was brilliant. Especially the first three seasons.

Well, thanks to Netflix, I can try it with no pain to my pocketbook, so I'll give it a try and see.

Make sure you give Buffy a chance through its second season. The first season can look a bit thin in terms of production values. It's definitely worth watching the first season, but the second season is where it gets brilliant (and I do mean brilliant).