***The Count of Monte Cristo (discussion)

This thread will be exclusively for talking about TCoMC. We will open discussion of each block of 15 chapters from the start reading date and limit the conversation to those chapters (including those already covered). So for those who want to avoid spoilers, please refrain from reading and participating in this thread until after you have finished the assigned chapters.

For starters, it might be good to know a bit of background information. (With due thanks to www.pinkmonkey.com)

The author

Alexandre Dumas, père was born on July 24, 1802 in Villes-Cotterets to a French noble father that had settled in Santo Domingo (now part of Haiti). His paternal grandmother, Marie-Cessette, was an Afro-Caribbean that had been a black slave in Santo Domingo. There is no indication that Dumas ever defined himself as a black man, although his works would later be popular among African-Americans, probably because the tales were often stories of emancipation, and a shorter work, Georges (1843), specifically examined the issues of race and colonialism. Dumas’ father was a well-known general in Napoleon’s army that eventually fell out of favour, and Dumas himself maintained close ties with the resistance movement during the Napoleonic era. After Dumas’ father’s death in 1806, Dumas worked as a notary’s clerk and went to Paris in 1823 to find work. There, he gained a position with the Duc d’Orleans (later King Louis Philippe), and did some theatre work and publishing for obscure magazines.

Dumas was notoriously fond of women, having several mistresses and fathering illegitimate children, one being his son Alexandre Dumas fils ("fils" meaning "son") with Marie- Catherine Labay in 1824. In general, his life, like his books, was adventurous. He took part in the revolution of July 1830, caught cholera during the epidemic of 1832 and married one of his mistresses, Ida Ferrier, an actress, in 1840, separating from her after having spent her entire dowry. He built himself an impressive chateau, which he named "The Chateau de Monte Cristo" on the outskirts of Paris, and spent two years in exile in Brussels between 1855 and 1857 from his creditors before returning to Paris. He travelled widely to countries including Russia and Italy and assisted in Italy’s struggle for independence between 1860 and 1864.

While Dumas’ novels are primarily focused on adventure, his works generally tackled issues of racism, God, greed, forgiveness and men’s relationships. Dumas has been criticized for his sometimes melodramatic tales which are not necessarily faithful to the historical facts, although it should be noted that for the purposes of the roman feuilleton, fast-paced and adventurous tales based on intrigue and action usually use the historical background as a supplement to the tale as a whole. Dumas died in December of 1870 at Puys, near Dieppe at the age of 68, pursued by creditors and having spent most of the money he had on his lavish lifestyle.

The literary/historical background

Published in 1844, The Count of Monte Cristo is, along with The Three Musketeers, one of Dumas’ best-known novels. Dumas was well-known in Paris at the time of The Count of Monte Cristo’s publishing as both a celebrated playwright, but also as a master of "romans feuilletons", the serialized novels which were extremely popular in nineteenth-century Paris. The Count of Monte Cristo was published as one of these "romans feuilletons" in Paris’ Le Journal des Debats between 1844 and 1846, which serves somewhat to explain the adventurous mood of the tale, whose chapters would have provided effective cliff-hangers for its readers.

The period of Dumas’ writing The Count of Monte Cristo was still very soon after the French revolution, the rise to power of Napoleon, Napoleon’s defeat and subsequent return from Elba, and the eventual restoration of the French monarchy. French political history was therefore at the forefront in the minds of most French citizens and the novel is liberally littered with true historical facts and details. The Count of Monte Cristo’s theme of revenge had already been used by Dumas in Georges, published in 1843, but most importantly, Dumas desired to base The Count of Monte Cristo on the true story of Francois Picaud, who was essentially also a wronged man who became empowered to avenge himself and who returns from exile to become an anonymous instrument of Providence. It is said that the novel may also have been influenced by Dumas’ relationship with the son of Jerome Bonaparte (Jerome was Napoleon Bonaparte’s brother), who Dumas occasionally took on short educational journeys. The two once spotted the Island of Monte Cristo while travelling to or from the Island of Elba, and Dumas determined to write a novel about it. Around the general time of the novel’s publication, Dumas built himself a huge country house - the Chateau de Monte Cristo on the outskirts of Paris.

It is perhaps obvious to say that Dumas also based a large part of The Count of Monte Cristo on The Arabian Nights, borrowing names, backgrounds and major Themes. Dumas was also assisted in his writing of the novel by Auguste Maquet, a scholar who assisted in the research of factual and historical material and sources.

Great intros - thanks!

Great background info deebee, thank you.

Thanks, deebee!

Checking in... and thanks for the background info!

Adding my thanks, too, for the background info. Looks like is going to be a really great read!
--BJ

I just finished listening to the unabridged audio version of this book and I recommend it. I wish I had known that the 2002 movie was based on the book, but didn't follow it very closely. I kept waiting for things to happen as they did in the movie, but they don't. Also, it took me awhile to figure out that some of the characters in the book are referred to by more than one name or title. I was confused until I realized that.

Just posting so I can find this again once I've got my copy and started reading.

hello all, 3 more days to go!

has anybody done any preliminary reading -- introduction or translator's notes -- before starting with the text? as for myself, i prefer to read them after finishing the story.

i prefer to read them after finishing the story

I'm in total agreement with you deebee. I prefer to hold off on intro's till the end.
I have read the first few pages on TCoMC just to whet my appetite.

No, I have not done any preliminary reading. That feels too much like homework!

Thank you for laying the groundwork deebee1. That was very interesting and put me right in the mood for the book.
catchy'all later,
belva

So we start today, folks!

From 15 Feb -14 March: Read and talk about Chapters 1 to 15

Over to you...

Yeah! Let the games begin!

Made a start - and loving it already! I already like Edmond Dantes, and my translation (Penguin Classics, Robin Buss) is so clear and easy to read. I had a dual-volume old edition which I started at first, but the translation was so awful I went back to my brick of a paperback after about five pages and started again! I am really looking forward to this...

Hmm, now my cheap Wordsworth Classics edition doesn't seem to tell me who did the translation - how is that possible?

> 16, i'm a few chapters into the book and also loving it!

> 17 rose, i'm reading the same cheap edition too. it doesn't say who did the translation although in the bibliography page (between the historical notes and the table of contents), it does mention that this edition is a variant of David Coward's translation in the Oxford classics edition. no mention of any name to which it is attributed, though.

I am enjoying the first few chapters as well. Intrigue is building as I see the conflicts and jealousies presented among the characters.

>16 elliepotten:, Ellie, I also have the Robin Buss translation and it's great. Often I find that translated books read as if they've been translated, and this one just doesn't. He did a superb job. I read a couple of chapters yesterday and will read some more tonight. This is a reread for me, as I enjoyed it so much the first time, a few years ago.

I am reading the Modern Library version, and no translator is listed. I am enjoying this story as well. Can't help recalling The Shawshank Redemption movie where they were deciding where to place the book in the prison library.
--BJ

I am reading a Kindle version, but no translator is mentioned in mine either.

I have a Bantam Classic edition and, for what it's worth, the translation is by Lowell Bair. Fairly easy to read thus far.

I thought that the 15 chapters ended with a pretty good cliffhanger -- left me wanting more!
--BJ

I've done 8 chapters so far, but trying to slow down to spread the reading until 14th Mar.

I wonder how others are finding this 15-chapter division -- do you think it's reasonable to keep on with this equal division every month or should we divide the chapters instead on the basis of ease of reading and volume of chapters. With the latter, we may end up sometimes having to read less number of chapters (but this could also mean finishing the book earlier than Sept/Oct). Going by pages, unfortunately, will not do as we're reading different editions (plus Kindle).

Your thoughts?

The thing I like about 15 chapters a month is that I always know how far to read without having to check a schedule. But, that being said, I don't mind dividing it up differently if others prefer it.
--BJ

I am for sticking with the 15 chapters a month myself.

Just finished the 15 chapters... oh MAN, it's going to be so hard not to jump ahead! I wanted to keep reading...

Two more chapters left for me, and loving it so far. Only criticism I could make is that I'd have liked to have seen more of Dantes and Mercedes before his arrest, so that I felt more for the pair through everything to come. I don't think I got attached enough to Dantes before he got locked up!

Ellie, I agree! I actually found it a bit odd at first that there was so much emphasis on everyone else and not on the main character. Maybe that's so we don't get sick of him over the course of such a long book, haha. But I know exactly what you mean.

I'm rereading this after 20 years so I do have some recollection of the complexity of what is to come. But the sense I'm getting from the first chapters is that Dumas is more concerned about making sure that we dislike Villefort and that we are angry about the injustice of what is happening, rather than necessarily sympathising and feeling for Dantes. It's the big theme of politics at this stage, rather than the journey of an individual. Dantes is an innocent caught up in it all and in a way that's the message - that the politics of the time are so ingrained in everyday life that to take what may seem the 'safe' road of neutrality (Dantes' protestations that he only cares about his father, M. Morel and Mercedes) is no protection. Maybe it's necessary for that that Dantes is rather bland (because I agree he is) so that we aren't distracted by feeling sorry for him as an individual. If that makes any sense....

It makes a lot of sense! I think this is one of those books that I'd love to have a study guide for, so that I could gain more from the book through the historical/political/social background in which the book was written. Maybe I'll look for one when I'm done reading it though... sometimes study guides give away the plot, and since I haven't read it before, I don't want spoilers :)

Does anyone have a study guide or website to recommend for this kind of thing?

> 31 thanks, cj, for the input, it certainly makes sense!

> 21 dk, i've also been looking around for background material, and i found this online. i think it's quite useful and by separating discussion by topic and chapter,the study guide doesn't give away the plot as the reader can narrow his selection on what to read more on.

http://www.freebooknotes.com/page.php?link=http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/montecr...

When contrasting the first three despicable men, Danglers, Caderousse and Fernand, with Dantes I didn't require any further information regarding Dantes character. He loves Mercedes and his father and is a responsible seaman. He is obviously a fine young man who is in the throws of a terrible injustice. So the reader already sympathizes with Dante when Villafort shows his desire to advance. I am keeping the politics et al in mind but I do wonder how Dantes' journey turns his character around if at all.

Thanks for the website deebee. I haven't had a chance to look it over very well. But I will refer to it as I move thru the chapters.

Thank you for the link deebee! Looks helpful, I'll peruse through it more this afternoon :)

i just finished Chapter 9. it's interesting to note that while Villefort seems to be a cold, calculating, ambitious individual, he actually felt vague apprehensions and even guilt of what he was going to do. i couldn't believe, though, that the marquis would sell out all his funded property without asking Villefort why he needed to.

True, I thought that part was odd and I am not sure I totally understood why. Lots of bad guys in this one. How could the decks be so stacked against our hero?
--BJ

Before deebee so kindly gave us the site to look at I was going to say that rather than look at a study guide if it might give too much away maybe just finding some info on the general time and its political and social atmosphere would help to clarify some of the behavior of the characters, but it sounds like deebee found just the right source for us. Thanks! I actually took my Modern Library edition out at the library but I know I have the book around here somewhere so I might change up if I can get my hands on it. I never realized what a "page-turning thriller" it was considered for its time.

Hmmm Finished my 15 chapters, and although I find it to be an easy and interesting read I'm not hooked.

I think a large part is that I find Villefort the more interesting character. Dantes is too plain, he's young, resourceful, happy and innocent. And that's it! Villefort is also young, but ambitious, in love with Renee but willing to sacrifice the marriage to further his ambition. He has qualms about some of the choices he makes. And then, in the midst of it all, he clearly holds his father dear, who is the one who can ruin everything for him!
But I suspect Dantes will grow on me, the back of the book promises all sort of strong and dark emotions...

Did any of you find that the intial set-up read a little like a play? Or even a musical? He had to get through it fast, as it's not the point of the book, but still. How people just seemed to bump into each other whilst sitting at a roadside cafe. Every word uttered clearly pointed towards doom for Dantes. I didn't mind, just thought it was a bit odd. It passed about when he entered the prison.

So i'm curios to see how this book develops. I truly enjoyed the Three Musketeers, so I have great hopes!

I agree about the action being much like a play, in that it is about the movement from one character's pronouncement to the comment of another and not much about why? I am glad to hear that about the Three Musketeers because I was looking forward to reading that at one point myself!

A couple of things that I made note of:
First, related to set-up, I thought it was quite a coincidence that these three men, Fernand, Danglers and Caderousse, not only knew each other, knew Dante but all wanted to harm Dantes in some way at the same time.

Secondly, despite the fact that Dantes was indeed set up and sent to prison for some 14 years or so, he was very fortunate in that many circumstances seem to have went his way. Foremost, meeting Faria and essentially becoming his heir. One may think, and I would hope, that with things looking better for him, perhaps he will not follow thru on his vow to revenge those who hurt him. Move on Dantes, move on. Just let it go. I sense that will not be the case.

I have finished up the first 15 chapters and agree with Idalu (#39) - at this point of the book, Villefort is a more interesting character than Dantes - Dantes is too much swept up in the action yet and Villefort is more in contol of the action. Having not read the book before, I am anxious to see how the two of them play out over the course of the book.

I have finished the first fifteen chapters and what a place to stop! I must admit to having trouble getting the film out of my head as I read, but am interested in seeing how the story and relationships develop.

The parallels between Dantes and de Villefort are intriguing, both love their fathers; are about to get married and are both starting and doing well in their careers. The circumstances that lead to Dantes imprisonment — the jealousy and ambition of others coupled with the fear of Napoleon's return are fascinating.

Yes, indeed, calm. It is becoming a story rich in history and character. So looking forward to discovering how the lives of those we've met progress.

I now realise that it's going to be difficult for me to participate properly in the discussion since I have read waaay ahead of the 15 chapter group pace in my excitement.
But so far it's been very interesting although I'm soon going to get hideously confused about the number of characters that are present and how they relate to each other so I may have to look back through what I've read and note down all the important folk and what connections they have as a sort of crib sheet.

#45: LadyV - check out www.sparksnotes.com - they have an excellent character page for all of the characters in the book.

Wikepedia has a diagram of the character relationships in TCoMC which will be very useful as we go along.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Count_of_Monte_Cristo

> 43, yes indeed, what a place to stop! why did i not suggest chap 14 or 16 instead...the suspense at the end of chap 15 is just too much! :-)

so far, neither of the 2 main characters appeal to me though i expect this to change along the way -- up to this point i find both to be archetypes, the scheming, ambitious one, and the innocent, gullible other. i'm very much intrigued though by Noirtier, and look forward to his appearances farther on.

i agree with the comment that the initial set-up seemed like a play -- a stage-setting. that part with the 3 men in a cafe and the happy couple strolling by felt a little too contrived. the visit of Villefort to the king and the king's conversation with his officials also felt like a play. i expected the news of Napoleon's arrival to cause more consternation to his majesty. i also felt, like mmignano (msg 40) that there's not much about the why of things. apparently, in this way, Dumas succeeds in emphasizing the Romantic ideal, where the heart is regarded as superior to the mind. the sparksnotes analysis mentions that Dantes represents this -- he is all heart and not much of brain. not yet, anyway.

Just finished my first 15 chapters.

This is a reread for me because it's one of my favourite books and the group read reminded me that I actually haven't read it for a long time!

For some reason this time I was struck by the way Dumas mentions dates so much and did some wikipedia-ing on the French history around that time. In the very first sentence the date is set as 24th Feb 1815 and, as the book was published only 30 years later, I assume that people reading it at the time must have known that Napoleon was about to head to Paris. Given what Edmond was imprisoned for I wonder if the first readers would have thought Edmond would be released when Napoleon got into power. Of course, they'd also have known Napoleon wouldn't stay in power very long. I can't really imagine living in times that unsettled politically.

I also have a soft spot for Villefort, I dislike Danglers and Ferdinand heartily but I feel for Villefort more.

up to this point i find both to be archetypes, the scheming, ambitious one, and the innocent, gullible other.
sparksnotes analysis mentions that Dantes represents this -- he is all heart and not much of brain. not yet, anyway.

I feel a little differently about Dantes. True he does seem to be innocent, naive and gullible. However, he has displayed a leadership role in taking command of his ship and he must have some sort of intelligence to be first mate. He handled his altercation with the purser fairly well and isn't afraid of a fight if necessary to settle a problem. Perhaps this is foreshadowing a situation to come.

hello all, today we're off to start the second set of chapters: Chapters 16-30.

happy reading!

A bit late to the party (I needed some time to formulate my thoughts).

I would think that Dantes' initial naivety is partly there to show the contrast after he escapes (although I haven't read further than chapter 15, so I cannot be sure). He also seems to mature in the cell, going from "Oh, I'm sure this is just a silly misunderstanding; I'll get out in no time" via madness to being quite clever in covering up the escape attempt.

My favourite character to be annoyed at at the moment is Mercedes; in particular her "I will always be faithful to my fiance"-speech when she is introduced. The "set-up" that others mentioned did not bother me much, but that speech simply seemed so contrived; wouldn't Ferdinand know that she would not put out by now?

Writing about this has gotten me all excited about reading on!

I just finished the book and WHAT A RIDE!~!
I had read it previously, but as a teenager and I think it had to have been an abridged version. Believe me, I will not wait as long to read it again. Reading The Count of Monte Cristo forced me to set everything else aside; I was so taken with it. One simply does not find this kind of writing in today's literature.
There were so many characters that I really liked and so many that I did not. There were also those that made me go: "huh?" until further on in the book.
Now, I am going to take a break from my G/Rs since completing this one has put me hopelessly behind anyway & pick up a Virago, Pepita. I love Sackville-West and generally find her books to be very relaxing.
Enjoy the rest of your read folks. This one was a dandy and my favorite read thus far in 2010.

I think we got a rather nice division this time as well,, but of course, most of the chapters are rather self-contained.

I liked Faria - such a humble, yet believable character. I wonder if his warnings about revenge will make a return later in the book. I thought the part from the abbé's death up to when Dantes found the treasure was kind of boring (I think Dumas wants to show us that Dantes has become a lot more calculated and cynical after his prison years, but still, reading about a guy being patient gets dull in the long run).
However, love the part where Dantes becomes more active! Once more I am excited about reading on.

I just want to share my geekiness with other's in the group read.
I find it very fascinating to use Google Earth to see some of the venues mentioned in the book. I have visited the Appian Way and Rue du Helder this morning and love to get a feel of the area to enhance Dumas' prose all the more.

I've just completed the 2nd 15 chapters and found it to be a very meaty section. All the characters are reintroduced and the reader finds where life has taken them thus far.
Dantes seems to be very calculating and has prepared himself well over the past 10 or so years. It's almost as if has a way to get people he needs to become indebted to him.
Found it really difficult to put down.

I am extremely behind, having only read the first 15 chapters. I will have to catch up in the next week or so!

> congratulations, belva -- you were so taken with the story, it's obvious :-)

> Carmenere, that's a cool idea! will do the same...thanks for sharing!

i've finished the second set of chapters and found the story picking up. now that he has fulfilled his good deeds, i expect an even more exciting story to unfold when he meets his detractors once more.

hi all, today is the start of our 3rd set of chapters: Chapters 31-45

happy reading!

I am behind (still need to read chapters 16-30) but will try and catch up this weekend...

Finally read the second set of chapters. Loved Dante's relationship with the Abbe and the way the story is unfolding. I've finally got the film out of my head as I am reading as well, which is good.

Taking a short break before moving on to the next part but this time I'll try to complete the section before the discussion date.

Awww crumpets. I need to catch up! *scrambles off to find book*

#62 Faith! Now I want crumpets - and I'm still still behind

I find that I am having a love/hate relationship with Dantes.

sorry, folks, i have been slack -- thought that today was just the 16th of May! blame it on the rush to meet deadlines these last weeks :-( i have some catching up to do with reading TCoMC as well -- i'm a few chapters behind...

so the next set until the 15th of June will be Chapters 46-60

I also have some catching up to do, but I am planning to catch up by the next deadline. Thanks for keeping us organized!
--BJ

I am behind on this one - somehow I forget about TCoMC because it is on my Kindle-for-PC and not in book form. I will get back on track though.

Ack, the TIOLI challenges have really consumed my precious reading time. I'll try to bring TCoMC up to date this weekend after my TIOLI's are finished.

knock knock...

still reading with me?

we're now on to Chapters 61 to 75 till mid-August...

(i got some catching up to do!)

at this point, i have mixed feelings about Dante, he is too much godlike here, rather than human, and everybody else putty in his hands. i'm curious about what exactly took place in the intervening years between his escape from prison and his sudden appearance as Count years later. i wonder if the story gets to be told in later chapters.

I am going to catch up this summer for sure!
--BJ

I am woefully behind but I will catch up at some point.

I recently finished my abridged edition of TCoMC and I enjoyed it so much I'll be on the lookout for an unabridged version to read in the future. Thanks deebee for getting my old, yellowed tome off of my TBR shelf and into my heart.

OKay, alcottacre, I'm woefully behind you, but now nearly 100 pages in the unabridged (who would have thought that a 456 page book was an abridged version??) version and enjoying it mightily. Maybe by the end of August 2011. . .