detective fiction; murder mysteries

Does anyone else favor mysteries by the English? I really prefer the older ones. I got hooked on Sherlock Holmes when I was nine years old and quickly moved on to Agatha Christie, Ngaio Marsh, Edmund Crispen, Josephine Tey, Nicholas Blake Cyril Hare and others. Of those still living, I like PD Jamesand Ruth Rendell.

Is anyone else a fan of the traditional British mystery

All of my favorite mystery writers are English. I highly recommend the prolific Robert Barnard. His puzzles are as sneaky as Agatha Christie's, but his stories are far more realistic, and his characters are very well-written.

I would recommend John Mortimer's Rumpole series even to people who aren't interested in mysteries.

Doulton, I love them! Excellent list. You've named many favorites of mine. Also try the British & Irish Crime Fiction group. Brownpaperbag, good call on John Mortimer.

The baffling touchstones at right lead me to suggest having a look at what LT loads and clicking 'other' if it's not right, until you find the author (or title) you'd intended. :)

I'm new to mysteries & so far, I have only read English authors.

I love Christie's Miss Marple & Poirot. For modern mysteries I'm a big Colin Dexter fan, I think Inspector Morse is brilliant. :)

I'm not a big mystery reader myself (although I have read many of Agatha Christie's books in the past). I wonder if the British tradition in this genre is a remnant of Victorian/Edwardian class divisions. The investing detective becomes a useful conduit to step decisively between upstairs and downstairs bringing a redemptive morality that helps to maintain the status quo.

As for the American tradition I've always thought it unfortunate that Edgar Allen Poe didn't extend his dabbling in crime and mystery writing. I think he would have challenged Conan Doyle.

Five messages already and no one has mentioned Dorothy L. Sayers? A novelist of manners as well as a mystery writer, she's one author whose mysteries are eminently re-readable.

Six messages already and no-one has mentioned Margery Allingham. :-D

I'll throw in the Maisie Dobbs series by Jacqueline Winspear.

I forgot Dorothy L. Sayers! I love Lord Wimsey! Have you seen the dramatised; it's done very well.

I am not familiar with the other author's mentioned but will check them today on my visit to the library.

As for Poe, oh yes, I think you might be right about him giving old Sherlock a run...something to do with lunacy, alcoholism & rabies perhaps? :)

Nine messages already and no-one has mentioned Reginald Hill;-)

10 messages already and no one has mentioned Michael Innes? :-)

Doulton, I read some other mysteries, but if book stores had a section for British Mysteries, I'd head straight for it every time!

I'm always a little surprised when English mystery writers are being discussed *no one* ever seems to have a word to say about Robert Barnard. I think he is one of the slyest, cleverest writers of mysteries today. After I read Scandal in Belgravia, I read his entire output, which comes to over 30 books, I think. Any one else like Robert Barnard?

Mmm.... delectable reading, these author recommendations, and the evoked memories of reading.

I love Inspector Morse, Molly; agreed. Lilithcat - how right you are about re-reading Sayers! Very few stand up like her.

Anyone who wants to give best recommendations for Reginald Hill, I may have asked elsewhere, but please do. The only one I've read is Pictures of Perfection. Same for Cyril Hare. I enjoyed With a Bare Bodkin, and have been interested in some of the others, but shorting myself on buying mysteries, lately. Perhaps it's time for a change??? ;)

Anything else in the way of overwhelming recommendations will be happily taken into consideration.

Sgrt, all I've read of Robert Barnard's is Death of a Mystery Writer. It was ok, but didn't thrill me. I may just have made a wrong first choice. Thoughts?

Eurydice, you're probably right--ok, but not a thrill. I guess I like the low-key style. His plots are, I think, not formulaic, and there are few series characters--a couple of detectives, Charlie Pride in particular. If you do read another one, I'd suggest Scandal in Belgravia--that was the one that hooked me. Disposal of the Living (US title: Fete Fatale) is good, too. I think his quirky endings are well worth the read--and each book is about a day's read at that.

I'll keep my eyes out for A Scandal in Belgravia, then, sgrt. Thank you!

Edited to say: quirky endings do appeal. :)

Ahem, sgrt, I mentioned Robert Barnard way back in Message 2. Yes, I like Robert Barnard! Actually, I love him.

Sorry you didn't like Death of a Mystery Writer, Eurydice. He doesn't write the same kind of mystery each time out, so you might like his other stuff, but with so many titles to choose from, I don't know which specific books to recommend. (He's also written a few very funny historical mysteries under the name Bernard Bastable.) By the way, I highly recommend his nonfiction A Talent To Deceive: an Appreciation of Agatha Christie.

As for Reginald Hill, you've already read my #1 recommendation, Eurydice. I adore Pictures of Perfection! My own experience was to start in mid-series with Bones and Silence, which was good enough to get me hooked, and then go on to read all the later ones in chronological order, (and the earlier ones in no particular order). Then again, your username suggests an interest in the classics, so I'm thinking you might particularly enjoy Arms and the Women, which has an Aeneid theme. (Which has nothing whatsoever to do with Eurydice, but it's all in a manner of speaking Greek to me.)

#12
sgrt,

I dug out & listed 20+ by Robert Barnard, just for you. :-)

18 posts, and no one has mentioned Peter Dickinson yet? :-)

I got hooked by The Glass-Sided Ants' Nest.

Also check out the British and Irish Crime Fiction Group which has a couple of threads devoted to specific authors and recommendations for them, including Reginald Hill and Andrew Taylor, so far unmentioned. For Cyril Hare I liked An English Murder partly caused I guessed the motive due to my knowledge of Trollope. Also seconds on Peter Dickinson.

Brownpaperbag, many thanks. I'll look for all of the above. My username, right though you are, is primarily a product of late night and my then-current fascination with Orpheus legends' importance to the development of early opera. Not even a subject I know much about. Now, of course, I am doomed and can never change it. :) Maybe before there were forums; but not now. Quartzite, my knowledge of Trollope is composed entirely of hearsay; but I'll be happy to give An English Murder a reading, all the same.

Sorry, brownpaperbag, on my browser, for some reason R. B.'s name didn't high light in blue, as most others do, so I missed it . I like Talent to Deceive, too, and he does warn that it's full of spoilers. Thanks, myshelves. One day when my lib. is back together (now in two states) my R.B. collection will again be complete! ;-)

I have explored a few newer British mystery authors, most are not readily available here in the States.

Jim Kelly has written 4 or so mysteries beginning with Water Clock. His books are out in hardcover here in the US but have never gone into paperback. What I thought was interesting in these is the "sidekick", who is not, imho, the overeating, language-loving taxi driver who carts the protagonist (I've forgotten his name) around, but the protagonist's wife, even though she is in a coma. I think his coming to her bedside and telling her everything serves the same purpose as a sidekick. I've read three and enjoyed them. Although he is no Reginald Hill or P.D. James, he certainly writes entertaining, midweight mysteries.

Susan Hill's first book The Various Haunts of Men was also very interesting. The detective Simon Seraillier (or something like that) is pretty much in the background the whole first book but we get to learn about him from others, mostly women. A fascinatingly different approach. There is also a death that is unexpected. I have the second book, Pure in Heart, but haven't read it yet.

Alex Gray is touted as Glasgow's Ian Rankin, and writes a decent, entertaining mystery. I've read two of hers, A Small Weeping and Shadow of Sounds.

avaland, Pure in Heart in my opinion, is no where as good as The Various Haunts of Men, but don't let that put you off the third The Risk of Darkness, which is much better.

thanks for the tip, ann163125.

Ah, I must take a break from my various readings to devour the latest Reginald Hill...

Which one is that? I know there is a new one on the way. Have I missed its publication?

Just on sale today here in the US. Death comes for the Fat Man. I'm a good ways into it now, terrorism-based plot with an interesting twist (no spoiler there, really). I suspect he plays the suspense out to the end of the book with regard to the event (or not) suggested by the title. It could go either way, I suppose.

#28 This is the one I was thinking of although it had a slightly different title when I first read about it. (The Death of Dalziel) I must try my library site and see if they have it. I wouldn't be surprised if Hill has decided to kill Dalziel off. He's obviously been increasingly annoyed with the way the television has developed the character and the storylines.

>29 ann163125: Yes, I was told over on another group that the British title was slightly different. I'm very interested in getting a hold of the television series for a look, didn't realize it was still ongoing (although I suspect I would be disappointed).

#30 If you can get hold of the BBC version of Dialogues of the Dead then you will see what I mean. It's almost unrecognisable. I don't think it's any coincidence that there is a character in the book who is an author who hates having his work televised.

I don't know what he (Hill) is complaining about - doesn't he remember the ITV version, with Hale and Pace (bad UK comedians) in the lead roles.

>31 ann163125: Finished the new one, another great story. And it's great to be back with some terrific characters (like putting on a pair of comfy shoes).

#33. Thanks. I've got it on order. Will come back to you when I've read it. Do you read Val McDermid? I've just been having a blitz while I've been a bit under the weather (very good when your brain isn't working at its best!). I've blogged about them if you haven't come across her.

>34 ann163125:, no, I don't read McDermid. I try to limit my mystery reading somewhat and particularly enjoy them as literary palate cleansers between other kinds of fiction. I read Rankin, Hill, James and stay current; I'm behind a few books with Crombie, George & Todd (Americans writing British mysteries), and sometimes I like to check out new authors as evidenced by a previous post. I avoid thrillers, I want the protagonist/s to have to figure the mystery out intellectually (although thrillers sometimes work well on audio in the car).

Can someone tell me about Martina Cole? She doesn't sell over her in the states. I'm curious as John Connolly told us she is a big bestseller in the UK. Speaking of which, anyone here read the latest John Connolly, The Book of Lost Things? I've read it, but I'm interested in what others have to say about it.

I know Elizabeth George is American, but her books are all set in Britain and she seems to have very British sensibilities, so I assume they appeal to most of us Anglophile readers. They do to this one, at any rate. Are there any other Elizabeth George fans out there?

Elizabeth George has dropped from my "gotta read" list. She went downhill after Deception on His Mind, I thought. The recent story about Helen that was so controversial was back up at top form (I listened on audio) but I've moved on - Rankin and Hill have replaced her.

How about Dorothy Sayers?

Ah Hem #1 Ngaio Marsh was a New Zealander and not an Englishwomen (called POMs in New Zealand). I actually lived quite close to her zillions of years ago in NZ. If anyone doesn't know what a POM is - I will let you know, 'cos I was called one all the time.

karenwardill, as far as I know, POM is the abbreviation of Property of His/Her Majesty, and was originally attributed to the convicts transported to Australia. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Most researchers have rejected the idea that POM (or pommy) stands for Property of His/Her Majesty and believe it is a contraction of pomegranate. A pomegranate, or 'pummy grant', was an assisted immigrant. The alternative is that British sailors ate pomegranates to protect from survy, which would give it the same etymology as 'limey'.

edited for spelling mistake

There are some delightful mysteries by Georgette Heyer - Behold Here's Poison and Why Shoot a Butler. There are about five or six if I remember correctly.

There are darker mysteries by Minette Walters and Ruth Rendell.

Does John Buchan count for the 39 steps? I think he became a governor of Canada but was originally scottish.

I would definitely count John Buchan. I love his characters - the best type of young Englishman and the fine flower of English womanhood. He has such certainty.

Martha Grimes, anyone? Like Elizabeth George she is an American, however I've always enjoyed her Richard Jury novels and I've never noticed her being at such pains to prove her knowledge of London and England in the way of Ms. George. That strained, I-do-know-what-I'm-talking-about-and-I'll-prove-it kind of writing always disrupts a story for me.

Also, anyone a fan of G.K. Chesterton's Father Brown?

Since my March posts I've managed to acquire two UK DVDs of Dalziel & Pascoe and enjoyed them immensely. They were storylines from early books I hadn't read. Wish I could get more but I don't see any more DVDs available.

I have on order what is said to be the final Rebus book from Ian Rankin. I have also been told that he doesn't die and may show up as a secondary character in the future (helping out others).

I enjoy the lack of guns in UK mysteries. Guns are sort of like magic in fantasy books, it's the easy way out. The US puts way too much action, adventure and guns in their mysteries - it's so unrepresentative of REAL law enforcement.

Catching up after a while:

Almigwin, excellent thoughts. I do like Ruth Rendell and have often thought I needed to get in more Buchan. I've heard praises of Georgette Heyer's mysteries, but read none. Can you - or anyone else - serve up recommendations on Minette Walters, or Ruth Rendell favorites? Also, John Buchan to pursue, post-Thirty-Nine Steps?

Ever behind the times, I read my first Ian Rankin recently, and had a mixed reaction. The plot was intricate and well-thought, many of the characters interesting, I enjoyed Rebus and Siobhan, but the whole was disappointing. About 2/3 of the way through, battling my desire to know what happened, came the realization that I was bored. Still, if anyone has picks for the best of the series, I'll think of trying it again. I really wanted to like it more.

Avaland, I agree about guns. In early American hardboiled books, especially with private eyes, I think there was a (distorted and fictionalized) version of reality. I'm thinking quite early and about the availablity of guns and the use of them in post-war periods. But relying on 'action' doesn't really sell me (and I certainly don't respect or enjoy it!) - it is the easy way out - whereas the pitting of wits, unravelling of clues, study of human motivations, DOES.

(edited trying to fix the Heyer and Walters touchstones - to no avail, for full names, or any at all for Minette Walters.)

I just bought a very old second-hand copy of John Buchan's Castle Gay - I'm not sure if it's a mystery or not, but it looks promising! Has anyone read it?

*groan* my TBR pile(s) is already huge and I discover this thread! What a gold mine of information here.

Eurydice, coming to Rankin late also, I had the same reaction. I bought the first three books thinking I should read things in order but they didn't make me want to read more.

Coming to your message late, as well, my thanks, tiffin, for the reassurance. It may not be orthodox, but I feel better that my reaction is shared.

It's an excellent thread, indeed. Any comments on Michael Innes? I'm reading his Lament for a Maker and think I have fallen in love. Amazing. Appleby on Ararat, read long ago, did little for me; but my few subsequent glances at him show how much I've missed.

Two excellent stories I`ve read recently by English authors - Walk In Fear by W Howard Baker and Nine O`Clock Shadow by Jack trevor Story.

The Baker story has also been issued in longer form as Every Man an enemy.

Currently reading Murder in the Air by John hunter. I`ll post a review once I`ve finished it, which shouldn`t be long.

I like the cover so much it appears on my profile page if anyone`s interested.

If you like both British crime fiction and historical fiction, then you ought to be reading the Brother Cadfael stories of Ellis Peters (set in 12th century western England) or the Falco stories of Lindsey Davis (set in ancient Rome).

(Sorry, author touchstones dead.)

Most of my favorites have already been mentioned: Edmund Crispin first and foremost, Innes, Marsh and Sayers. I went looking for others a while back and found quite a few really good works that took a bit of hunting to find (mostly from local San Francisco used bookstores, but quite a few were on Amazon's Marketplace). Afficianados probably know all about them, but they were all new to me. These two
sites
were immensely helpful in finding books that conformed to my tastes. I guess I prefer the stuff classified as the "Donnish School" best of all. Hopefully someone else will find these worth investigating:

Case for Three Detectives by Leo Bruce
Death at the Dog by Joanna Cannan
Death Comes to Perigord by John Ferguson
Death Walks in Eastrepps by Francis Beeding
Footsteps at the Lock by Ronald Arbuthnott Knox
Landscape with Dead Dons by Robert Robinson
Middle Temple Murder by J.S. Fletcher
An Oxford Tragedy by J.C. Masterman
Poisoned Chocolates Case by Anthony Berkeley
A Question of Proof by Nicholas Blake
Six Against the Yard by Detection Club
Tragedy at Law by Cyril Hare
Trent's Last Case by E.C. Bentley

I`ve never read it (yet?) but I`m told Trent`s Last Case is good.

I gather E C Bentley meant Trent`s last case to be Trent`s only case, but brought the character back 20+ years later for Trent`s Own Case. I must admit, I`m not 100% sure how true that story is as I`m 99% sure a Trent short story appeared in an Ellery Queen collection Sporting Detectives, and may actually have appeared elsewhere before that.

He was also part of Detection Club, I believe.

Twacorbies, have you tried Sarah Caudwell's legal mysteries? Dry, witty and entertaining. The narrator is a don, Hilary Tamar, whether male or female we never know. The investigators are lawyers, Hilary's ex-students. A good one to start with is The Sirens Sang of Murder.

ETA The first in the series is Thus Was Adonis Murdered.

#54 nickhoonaloon, this is the same story I have always found about the book on the web, so if it's apocryphal, it's certainly wide spread. i haven't read Trent's Own. the other anecodote that is often mentioned is that it was intended more as a parody of the genre or at least a gentle ribbing. if so, bentley is very light on the prodding, because it is a solid story. trent is a very likable guy- i don't know if i'd ever want to meet wimsey or appelby in the flesh, but bentley seems like someone you could share a drink or two and a laugh with.

#55 no i haven't pamelad, but that title sounds really familiar.... i will check it out and thanks! :)

there are a few books i've been trying to track down for years that i'm having no luck with... probably easier to find if i lived in britain. the only author that i wasn't really crazy about (not trying to pick a fight here) was margery allingham. admittedly, i only gave her one chance, The Fashion in Shrouds, but the book left me cold.

#56

I once read an article which described the Trent book as a parody. However, when it came to talking about the content, I felt the writer had chosen his/her words badly, it seemed more that the writer intentionally did not abide by the customs of the genre, if `customs` is the word I`m looking for.

I must admit I`m not wild about Allingham, though in truth I did enjoy Tiger in the Smoke, whether that`s because of, or in spite of, it`s shortcomings I`m not sure.

It definitely has a power to it that (in my experience) her other works lack.

Today the postman delivered my copy of Walter Tyrer`s the Mystery of the Mad Millionaires. Now all I need to do is find time to read it !

# 54, # 56

The short story in the Queen collection I mentioned is called The Sweet Shot. Apparently it comes from a book of Trent short stories by E C Bentley called Trent Intervenes.

Hope that helps,

Nick

By the way, if you're in San Francisco, check out the cozy but crammed with books SF Mystery Bookstore on 24th St. in Noe Valley. I pick up a lot of Innes books there- no The Man From the Sea (touchstones not working) there when I stopped by on Saturday alas, but I picked up An Awkward Lie and a couple of Marsh books. Chatted for a bit with the woman that owns the place and she was welcoming, friendly and knowledgeable. It's fun just listening to the conversations going on in the place about favorite authors and books (a few browsers were talking about the Ian Rankin and Val McDermid "incident").

Interesting. What was the `incident` ?

I haven't visited here in a while, so I'm just catching up.

>51 nickhoonaloon: - Nick, I love the cover art on Murder in the Air. Charmingly sinister! Thanks for posting it.

I read Trent's Last Case a few years ago, knowing that it is a mystery classic. However, I can't for the life of me remember anything about it. As it was Bentley, I'd expected it to be a great read, and am surprised that it was so forgettable.

I'd second Tiger in the Smoke as one of the better Allingham Albert Campion mysteries. The first one I read was More Work for the Undertaker, which got me hooked. Lugg in particular is a wonderful character. Sweet Danger is also agreeably quirky (I think it's also known as The Fear Sign. I'm a big fan of the BBC Campion series that ran some years ago - have any of you seen them?

Pamelad - I was recently looking for a book, and Thus Was Adonis Murdered leaped off the shelf into my hands. It was recommended to me some time ago, and I bought it but never read it. I've added it to my teetering TBR pile.

A short time ago I read TH White's Darkness at Pemberley, which is one of the mysteries reprinted by Dover. It fits well into the list that twocorbies provided above. And yes, it is the same TH White who wrote The Once and Future King. It think it is his only mystery, and I enjoyed it very much.

I am rereading my second E.X. Ferrars this week- A Pretty Pink Shroud , i think she would should appeal to those who like traditional style English mysteries with a village setting.

#60- Hi Nick, you can find all the "sordid" details of the feud here and here.

#61 - MaggieO, I've never heard of the White book... I'm going to have to check that out.

61 - Hi, Maggie,

I`m glad you like the Murder In the Air cover pic on my profile page. I change the pic there every so often, but not with any frequency. Murder... is staying there until I can find a worthy successor.

Similar cover art can be found in my library, however.

#62 - Yes to Ferrars. She is actually known over here as Elizabeth Ferrars. I bought some of her books in a charity shop as a teenager - I still have them, and in fact was only commenting to a friend recently that I ought to re-read them.

#63 - I will have a look at your links, thanks.

I`ve had a look at the links. The headline Revenge of the Bloodthirsty Lesbians was more interesting than the factual article. I did enjoy the 10 facts about Conan Doyle, though knew quite a few of them already.

Oh, Maggie, I remember the Campion series---with our boy Peter Davison in the title role. Quite good. *opens a new tab to check availability* Yes, I see Netflix has several of them. My queue gets longer & longer...

Due to a variety of reasons, it seems I have tossed aside the three books I was ready for now, to read Ian Rankin's Exit Music which has been on my TBR pile since I paid way too much money to get the UK version early (what? no touchstones today?).

"Detective stories help reassure us in the belief that the universe, underneath it all, is rational. They're small celebrations of order and reason in an increasingly disordered world." --- P. D. James

My world has been increasingly disordered recently, so here I am.

First I go with Agatha Christie, she is tops for me. Then it is individual stories.

I love The Red House Mystery by A.A. Milne. Yes, the same!

For all you really nice people that write here I give you his dedication:

TO
JOHN VINE MILNE
MY DEAR FATHER,

Like all really nice people, you have a weakness for detective
stories, and feel that there are not enough of them. So, after
all that you have done for me, the least that I can do for you
is to write you one. Here it is: with more gratitude and
affection than I can well put down here.

A.A.M.

Thank you, yareader2, that was lovely!
:-))

I've been going through as much Freeman Wills Crofts as I can lay my hands on. He's very much a "timetable" sort of mystery writer from the '20s through the '40s (I think) with a wonderful hero called Inspector French. I recommend Death of a Train, The Cask and The Cheyne Mystery among others. Very much an enjoyable read in a light, mid-century English sort of way!

#70 I've stayed away from him for that reason abealy, even though I've heard a lot of good things about The Cask. Do you find that you need to work up a timetable of your own to get the most of it? Whenever timetables play into mysteries I've read I tend not to put too much energy into following along unless it's fairly evident what makes a certain eventuality impossible (Sayers seems good at this).

abealy and twa, could you explain what you mean by "timetable" writer? I'm seriously deficient in my mystery reading, so don't know what this means.

My first post here. I have always liked to read all books by a mystery author in order before choosing a new writer. Of course, sometimes an author I've "finished" writes a new book, and I read those, too. I started with Agatha Christie when I was about 12 years old. Next was Dorothy L. Sayers, then Josephine Tey. Others I've finished (to date) are Gladys Mitchell (first time mentioned here? A Golden Age author), and the already-mentioned Ngaio Marsh (she did live much of her life in England), Robert Barnard, P.D. James, Elizabeth George, Anne Perry, and Sarah Caudwell. Does anyone consider Jasper Fforde a mystery author?

#70 & 71, by "timetable" I meant an author who spends an inordinate amount of time letting you know exactly when events happened and in consequence has his detective going over that timing and letting you know exactly why "A" couldn't have done it because while the "5:14 to Pohunk" was on the Bridge of Sighs, "A" was in another county!! You get the idea, and while I agree this can become tiresome, with Crofts I never feel overwhelmed by these details.

Thanks, abealy. Got it now.

#40 Aluvalibri - POM is actually short for 'Prisoner of Mother England'

POME is the actual abbreviation and is pronounced like the french word for apple with an ee sound on the end. It is rather an insult, and is/was often preceding by the word 'whinging'.

You are a bloody whinging Pome b....... was commonly used on the recent UK immigrant.

Thank you for the detailed explanation, karenwardill!
:-))

#76

The Prisoner of Mother England is apocryphal and most likely incorrect. The OED can find no evidence to back up that etymology. It seems to suggest that pom/pommie comes from pomegranate - apparently old rhyming slang for immigrant.

#78

Huh. Fascinating.

# 67

My world has been increasingly disordered recently, so here I am.

Likewise. I just finished a happy interlude with Peter Dickinson and his King and Joker, laying aside three other books - in the 'currently reading' category - to do it. And I think those in my TBR stack may well get some play. It's been a while since I went on a mystery binge. Dickinson, Elizabeth Daly, Michael Gilbert, Michael Innes and Cyril Hare have all made fresh contributions to my TBR pile. Larded with some non-fiction (or 'seriousness'), it looks alluring.

(edit: touchstones are acting up)

Re "pom": Michael Quinion of World Wide Words has an interesting page on this much disputed, although relatively recent, term. He appears to support the "pomegranate" theory, which makes about as much sense as any other ;-)

>79 Eurydice:. It's been a while since I went on a mystery binge.

I could say the very same thing. . .but it seems I've slipped over the poetry at the moment...

Funny, my other current, major book is..... Lives of the Poets! (Great book, I think, and equally applicable.) Once into it a bit, I happily snagged a copy of the New Oxford Book of English Verse, 1250-1950, to go with it.

Best wishes on your own book binges and comfort reading; or your own seriousness. I find challenging and interesting or truly fine books as valid and perfect for moments of stress as I do books of escapist types. Better, in fact - if I'm not too tired, or beyond anxiety.

(Edit: Sorry to succumb to a drift in subject.)

#82- I'm tackling that one as well Eurydice. Taking it in small doses though as I'm still slowing chipping away at two other hefty tomes.

It's good in small doses. :)

How far are you? (Says I, not 200 pages along.)

#84- I'll have to check- I've been trying to get through Mason and Dixon and The Decameron mostly so I haven't picked it up in a couple of weeks. If my profile page is any indication, I'm up to Wordsworth, because I posted this quote there: "The trajectory of Wordsworth's work in the Nineteenth Century is like T.S. Eliot's in the Twentieth. He shakes the age awake with a freshness of language and vision, then changes tack; it is as though Moses led his tribe out of the Eighteenth Century and then turned around and tried to go back again." Passages like that really make the book for me- he has to cover so much ground so quickly, that really opinionated and imaginative metaphors like that help get a handle on the unrelenting procession of poets.

I see we need a new thread for poetry;-)

85, 86: Yes, and yes. :)

I'd say more, but I'm late leaving, and I see there's a new thread ready. Later, I hope. :) It's worth discussing.

I think murder mysteries have a home in plays. This is my favorite type of drama to watch on stage. I give Agatha Christie the top spot in this catagory also.

She was very good. I remember reading a volume of her mystery plays - The Mousetrap and other plays - which, by and large, I enjoyed. The Mousetrap, I know, is incredibly long-running, but not all that admired - even among her plays, I think. Agatha Christie* was incredibly skilled, cunning, and wryly humorous, but also uneven. (As one would be, with such a huge output, in so many years.) Somehow the few really bad books - or others I truly disliked - shade my view of her. But it doesn't change a lot of excellence. :)

*drat the touchstones!

I think Witness for the Prosecution was pretty good as a play.

Yes, it was!

#36

I was surprised to learn she was born and raised in the US, really. She does have a flat in London now though.

Funny how she could write in such a convincing way that the reader wouldn't know who she really is.

Another one that hit me was Charles Todd, the mother son writing team.

#68 and92, yareader2:

I also read and enjoyed The Red House Mystery! My copy was an ebook on my Palm Pilot.

Also, I didn't know Charles Todd was a mother-son writing team.

Just thought I'd slip in a line for Ellis Peters (Brother Cadfael). Her mysteries are excellent for a good "mystery binge." Does anyone know where I could get the DVD set of the Cadfael Chronicles? I also have to send my vote along for Agatha Christie. Miss Marple is one of my personal heroes-I think someday when I retire I will knit, garden, live in a cottage, and be involved in the life of my community. And last, but definitely not least, Colin Dexter is another of my mystery favorites.

There's a British and Irish Crime Fiction Thread too. For those who haven't come across it, here's a link. Must reads of the genre

# 54, 56, 58, 61

I`ve not been on LT much lately, so this is a tad belated.

I`m currently reading Bloody Murder by Julian Symons. He quotes Bentley on his intentions when writing Trent`s Last Case - apparently Bentley disliked the character of Sherlock Holmes, in particular his egotism and seriousness. He set out to write "a detective story of a new sort" and originally wanted to call his central character Philip Gasket. He also intended that the book be "not so much a detective story as an exposure of detective stories".

Whether this makes it a parody is a bit debateable.

#90 - Witness for the Prosecution - also a very good film with Charles Laughton and Marlene Dietrich.

#96 - that jives with what i've read nick... trent is definitely one of the most likeable detectives of that era. he's someone you'd like to meet and go get a pint with. lord peter wimsey seems in this day and age like an out and out jerk (love sayers' stuff regardless of course). and allingham's main character (name escapes me) struck me as the most repellent of them all.

Campion! He too has his moments. Have pity on the under-employed upper classes hiding their angst behind the guise of fatuous twitdom!

quartzite, that was a splendid sentence!

#97 I love Agatha Christie mysteries

#101

Never underestimate Agatha. Her weaknesses are well-documented, but she she had more strings to her bow than many people appreciate. I`ve mentioned it before, but I learnt to read `grown-up` books by reading my mother`s Agatha books and my late father`s John Creasey paperbacks.

#96, #98

I forgot to mention this, but the reader at Nelson`s (publishers) who decided to publish the first Trent book was none other than John Buchan ! When he named a price, Bentley apparently thought it was too high.

#98, #99

Allingham was a barmy old biddy. I give her a lot of credit for Tiger in the Smoke, though the world-view it espouses is obnoxious. I`ve read Death at the Funeral and that was basically a bit of candy floss with some bigotry chucked in at the end.

Personally, I rather resent the fact that the crime fiction produced my country is often regarded as being cosier than that of our transatlantic cousins. We have a venerable London noir tradition, of which Derek Raymond is probably the godfather. Other great London crime writers are Mark Timlin, Jake Arnott, Cathi Unsworth, Mo Hayder and Anthony Frewin.

My favourite current London copper is Mark Billingham's DI Tom Thorne.

Pretty much anything published by the small London crime presses The Do-Not Press and No Exit Press is worth a look.

#103

I didn`t know there was such a perception, though I would have resented it if I`d known.

I don`t think anyone would describe John Harvey`s Charlie Resnick stories as cosy.

Always good to hear about the output of small presses, though I don`t generally approve of many things south of the River Trent ! While we`re on the subject, the Midlands-based Five Leaves Press hasve an interesting collection ; David Belbin (ed) City of Crime , which includes a contribution from a detective sergeant based in the lovely (ha, ha) area of Bulwell in Nottingham.

Now that I've read it agan, that's not the best message I've ever posted, nickhoonaloon. No Exit is actually based in Harpenden in Hertfordshire.

I suppose my assertion is less true now than it was in, say, the 1950s.

That reminds me, I was thinking the other day that I have read crime fiction set in almost every part of England, tons of London, Oxford of course, lots of West country, plenty of Cambridge/Fens, and also a fair amount of North--Yorkshire, Peaks, Lakes, Cumbria, and even the occasional Midlands, but nothing set in Liverpool. It's a great British city. Is there no great crime fiction series set there, or even a few one offs?

There might be some true crime, given Liverpool's reputation...

#106

Martin Edwards has quite a big series of crime novels about a Liverpool lawyer called Harry Devlin.

Ron Ellis has some crime novels about a Liverpool DJ called Johnny Ace.

Margaret Murphy has at least a couple of books set in Liverpool featuring detectives Rickman and Foster

Neville Smith's Gumshoe is a novelisation (of a film) and not a novel but still it probably counts.

I love Harry Devlin stories!

Martin Edwards is a member of a British crime writers group called Murder Squad, which also includes John Baker (Sam Turner), Stuart Pawson, Cath Staincliffe (Sal Kilkenny), Chaz Brenchley, Margaret Murphy and Ann Cleeves.

they sound interesting.

I read recently that John Harvey thinks the Nottingham-based Resnick novels haven`t been taken as seriously within the industry as some of his less regionally-based novels. In some ways that might sound a little churlish - one of his complaints is that the TV series has only been repeated once and still hasn`t come out on DVD, but I`m sure many writers would be very happy to have had their books turned into a series, let alone being asked to script it themselves ! Anyhow, having kept Resnick alive through the occasional short story, he has now written a new Resnick novel, so we`ll see how that does.

I`ve just read Bloody Murder by Julian Symons, a book about crime fiction. One of his many criticisms of the Golden Age novel is that reality isn`t allowed to creep in. He points out that G D H & Margaret Cole were prominent socialists of their day, but the conditions they depict in their non-fiction never appear in their detective novels.

I can only think of one exception, Down and Out by `IcantrememberhisnameIllenteritlater`. Were there others ?

I thought I`d be able to edit the last message, but the system won`t let me. Down and Out is by William J Bayfield. I personally don`t think much to it, but it is interesting in that it was written in the `30s and one character, a man wrongly accused of murder, is a northern worker out `on the tramp`, i.e. heading south travelling on foot and sleeping rough in search of work.

#103, # 104

This is just lateral thinking, but there`s an interesting site for anyoneinterested in small presses - The Branching Out Guide to Small Presses (I think that`s right, you might have to google a bit to find it). It`s not just about crime fiction, it covers a range of interests.

#103 In case anyone`s interested, the Do Not Press mentioned by Grammath publish anthologies for the Crime Writers Association. I`ve seen the 2004 edition, Green For Danger, which features Gwen Moffatt, Peter Lovesey, Ruth Rendell and others.

Nick, the touchstone we got for that was Christianna Brand's novel (of the 1940s, I believe?). This Green for Danger should be the one you meant...

Thanks for a number of interesting posts (as always), from another once-indefatigable member!

Quartzite: a lovely sentence, indeed, defending Wimsey and other of his ilk! In 103, you mention a good exposure to regional UK crime fiction. Can you recommend the best crime fiction you've read from various areas?

103, 104: Grammath, and Nick - It's a superannuated perception, based on the fiction of the twenties and thirties (and forties), in each country. While I love the writing from both sides, in that period, I'd also love to read some of the grittier stories of the present, and past things I've missed. When the moratorium on book purchases, which Grammath may remember reading of, ceases, I'll try to pick up a few. In the meanwhile, care to nominate? Specific choices, or best first writers?

Nick: add my greetings to my thanks. :) Nice to see you!

(And quartzite, and others.)

"The Antisocial Behavior of Horace Rumpole" is being broadcast in two parts as BBC Radio 4's Afternoon Plays for this Wednesday (in the U.K., that would be today, already) and Thursday.

You can listen again, online, for up to a week after broadcast. (To my U.S.-bound joy.)

Currently reading The Eye of Osiris by R. Austin Freeman. It was written in 1911 and features the famous detective Dr. Thorndyke. Light hearted puzzle so far, quite bloodless.

Finished. A good read.

Oh, goodness, am I a mystery fan! I love Wilkie Collins, as well as Agatha Christie, Dorothy Sayers, Ruth Rendell/ Barbara Vine, PD James, Elizabeth George. There are some authors that just can't be beat.

#117

You wrote a great list

There's detective fiction that's NOT British? (I have not been particularly impressed with American, or any other country's detective fiction).

MaggiO message #61. I LOVE the Campion movies!!! Peter Davison (I thought was EXCELLENT) for the role. I've been trying to collect the movies, and have about half of them (Look to the Lady, Death of a Ghost, Flowers for the Judge, and will soon be getting Mystery Mile in the mail). I love the themesong (I find myself singing, humming, or whistling it at all times of the day).

Dorothy L. Sayers, and Margery Allingham all the way! Lord Peter and Mr. Albert Campion (aka Rudolf K.-, aka, Christopher Twelvetrees, aka Mornington Dodd, aka Orlando, etc., etc., etc.)!!!

Anybody like Reggie Fortune? Decent detective.

#121 I don't know him, but I love the name, Reggie Fortune!

#121

Am I detecting a certain bias towards the upper-class twit style of detective. Not that Wimsey et al. were twits but they played up to that stereotype at times. For yareader2 (and maybe others) the Reggie Fortune stories were written by H.C. Bailey

Andyl, thanks awfully for mentioning who Reggie was written by, I couldn't, for the life of me, remember at the time. It's very hard for me to find those stories; we don't have more than three short stories (I don't know whether he has any novels) in our library system.
As for having a 'bias towards the upper-class twit style of detective', I, in any case, certainly do.

I've completely missed Peter Dickinson as a mystery writer - so thanks for that! I do like his The Changes trilogy (for children) 'though, so I must give him a go...

For me, Dorothy L Sayers is the best - who cares who did it, it's the characters that count!

I've recently discovered that several of the great television adaptations are available to stream through netflix so I have been rewatching Campion and Lord Peter and Inspector Alleyn

The Patricia Wentworth Miss Silver books I've come across are well worth reading on a stormy day (with the kettle on the hob).

I would also like to point out the rather specialized railway detective stories of Canon V. L. Whitehead. Dorothy Sayers supposedly admired these stories, which ought to be approbation enough.

gosh, Miss Silver...read those yonks ago.

Please excuse my intruding, but I zipped through the messages here and saw no mention of Josephine Tey, maybe my favorite of the Golden Age women mystery writers. I'd also propose Dorothy Dunnett's few Johnson Johnson mysteries as being worth a look.......and who was the man who wrote the very noir Factory series?

(Wrong again, Liz. The very first post mentions Tey. But why doesn't the Touchstone work on her name?)

Oh! And I thought that Dorothy Dunnett only wrote the Niccolo series!
Thanks for mentioning her, LizzieD.
:-))

The Chronicles of Brother Cadfael are still my favorite & while i love watch the videos i love the books even more. 8^)

Among my favorite British mysteries: "Rebecca" by Daphne Du Maurier (I also loved the film versions of "Rebecca")
I enjoy Martha Grimes' Inspector Jury series, especially her use of actual pub names for the titles.

> 129,130

I've never heard of Dorothy Dunnett's mysteries either. Thanks LizzieD.

aluvalibri, if you like Dunnett's historical fiction, Lymond Chronicles are worth checking out.

Josephine Tey --- there now we have her touchstone on this thread.

Elizabeth George and Peter Robinson are two more modern, non-British authors whose mysteries are set in England. Another is Deborah Crombie who, just happens to live in the town where I now live.

BTW, I just finished reading "The Thirty-Nine Steps" by John Buchan, a 1915 'shocker'/adventure thriller. In addition to the mystery, it was fun to read the various British phrases, etc. that were in use in 1915.

#134

Peter Robinson is English. A Yorkshireman too. He emigrated to Canada when he was 24.

>134 Catgwinn:,135

But John Buchan probably wouldn't have seen himself as English, even though he ended up in Canada too...

>136 thorold:
Actually, John Buchan was born in Perth, Scotland. He later moved to Glasgow and went to Glasgow University. He was at Brasenose College, Oxford, when he published five of his books. In addition to being a writer, he was a barrister and Member of Parliament. In 1935 he was made Baron Tweedsmuir of Elsfield, a small town near Oxford, and he was appointed the Governor-General of Canada. He held the latter post until his death in 1940.

#137

I think that was Thorold's point. A Scotsman is never English. Scotland being a different country to England.

# 138...You may be right.
BTW...Wiikipedia has a long article on John Buchan with details of his political/diplomatic career as well as his writing, and includes a photo of John Buchan.

Catgwinn - sorry, didn't mean to drop you in it...

To be fair, Buchan is a borderline case: he was a Scot, and proud of it, but I think he'd have been tempted if you'd offered him the possibility to swap to being English, provided it came with a bit of social status. He wasn't really comfortable with being a son of the manse and making his money by writing best-sellers. In Memory hold-the-door, the one thing he really boasts about is being Lord High Commissioner to the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland "the sole subject in Great Britain who on occasion represents His Majesty", but in reality a purely ceremonial job. Presumably he got the appointment as the only sober Scotsman they could find in Parliament.

#140-thorold,
Inthe Wikipedia photo his appearance is very 'posh' and 'upper-crust'. He also appears to be tall & slender.

I'm sure somewhere back on this thread I have confessed my addiction to some UK police procedurals - these days, that's PD James, and Reginald Hill and they're getting on in years (well, there was Rankin until Rebus retired... and there used to be Dexter but Morse died)*. But now I must confess my addiction to television series - first it was Midsomer Murders (what do they say, "Deadliest Country in the English Countryside"?). I've just set 16 to watch, I think. And, of course, I'm still getting my Dalziel & Pascoe from Belgium (cheap!), up to season 9 in that. And now, just when I think I could see a light at the end of the tunnel, a drought that will be my cure...I get hooked on Blue Murder! **

Through all of this I just want to say that I think the inhabitants of your particular island are terribly good at bashing people about on the head. Seems everyone in the country has a big, old heavy candlestick hanging about the house. Lots of stabbings, shootings with guns used for shooting fowl, running people over with vehicles, strangulation, and pushing down stairs. With all this cleverness what would you need handguns for?

* OK, there were a lot of others that I followed for a number of books before losing interest: Jim Kelly, Alex Gray...
**I should add that I have the Prime Suspect videos and tried watching "The Commander" but didn't care for it that much (she was just totally stupid) .

If you haven't watched (or read) I highly recommend the Frost series. The books by R.D. Wingfield were few but the t.v. series has many long seasons.

Also for books I see neither John Harvey nor Stephen Booth have been mentioned here yet and I think they are two of the better British police procedural authors writing today.

Avaland have you watched the George Gently TV series which is based on the series of books by Alan Hunter?

Or indeed read any of the books which seems unlikely as I can't ever recall seeing them for sale in a shop.

>144 andyl: no, I have not....

There are worth watching. There are another two episodes in production at the moment to add to the seven already made.

>145 avaland: I'll see if its available over here, thanks (yeah, like I need another one...).

Is Cracker any good (I knew a cop who was totally addicted to the books)

Has anyone read James Anderson? I have only read the first one of the series, The affair of the bloodstained egg cosy and I really liked it. It reminds me a lot of Agatha Christie in style, but with a dash of P.G Woodhouse, which to me always is a good mixture. A cozy mystery from the upper classes with a twist I did not see coming:)

#147

I can't remember much of Cracker. I didn't see the US remake.

It seems that the TV elves are busy moving other detectives to the small screen. This week sees the debut of Peter Robinson's DCI Banks on ITV. Only a 2x60 minute pilot at the moment but you never know.

>149 andyl: yes, I saw a piece on the Peter Robinson in the Guardian the other day. I don't read those, but that doesn't mean I won't watch them.

Mystery is my absolute favourite genre. I love reading cosy mysteries with no blood and gore or sexually explicit material. For that of course I turn to old time British mysteries.

Agatha Christie is my favourite mystery writer. I’m probably the biggest Christie ‘nut’ around here. I've read and collected almost all of her books. My favourite detective is Miss Marple. I've read and have collected all of her novels and short stories. My favourite Christie mysteries are The Thirteen Problems, The Pale Horse, Sleeping Murder, Cards on the Table, Parker Pyne Investigates, A Murder Is Announced; etc.

I love the Father Brown mysteries by G. K. Chesterton. I find they have a very calming effect on me. There is a certain serenity in the character of Father Brown that I find very pleasing. Some of my favourite among the Father Brown mysteries are The Queer Feet, The Sign of the Broken Sword, The Oracle of the Dog The Blast of the Book; etc.

Of course, no discussion about British detective fiction can be complete without mentioning Sherlock Holmes. I have read each and every one of the Holmes mysteries by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle out there. I have the Bantam Classic edition of complete Sherlock Holmes novels and stories volumes 1 & 2. I prefer his short stories to the four novels. The novels are somewhat dull whereas the stories are exciting.

I read my first Ngaio Marsh book earlier this year. It was a collection of her shorter fictions. I have her Opening Night on my To Read list. I thought her shorter fictions are pretty good. Let’s see how her novels turn out.

I wanted to see "Cracker", as an old acquaintance of mine - a police officer - really enjoyed the books and television series. So, when the disc came it turned out that we had inadvertently received the American version. We watched it anyways and I found the character (Fitch?) not only obnoxious but abusive to the people around him (he wields his psychological knowledge like a bully wields his fists). And it bugged me that all the women seemed to put up with it (even his wife whose problem with him seemed to be the gambling and other excesses, not the emotional abuse). Is the British version much the same?