2010 Anglophiles Message Board

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2010 Anglophiles Message Board

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1avaland
sep 8, 2010, 9:21 pm

Seems we're rather dead here, eh? Did we all run out of thing to say? Answered all the pressing questions?

Since I first joined this group not only do I have a British shop in my US town (where I can buy Kit Kat darks!), but I have a Brit for a son-in-law (I blame World of Warcraft). And, come November, I will once again step foot on the land of my ancestors - well, the majority of them. So, I'd like to ask the Londoners for three suggestions:

1. A really good used bookstore (we're staying in Bloomsbury)

2. A cool place to take a 15 year old girl to shop.

3. A market (are these running in November?) that has a lot of crafty stuff, handmade jewelry...etc.

2aluvalibri
sep 8, 2010, 9:40 pm

2. Camden Town

3agmlll
Bewerkt: sep 8, 2010, 11:06 pm

1. I like walking down Charing Cross Road where there are many used bookstores. There are also tables of used books under the Waterloo Bridge on the South Bank.

4lauralkeet
sep 9, 2010, 7:41 am

>1 avaland:: I have a British shop in my US town
Do they do mail order? Or can anyone recommend a mail-order source? Biscuits are of particular interest: chocolate digestives and bourbon creams

As for your questions:
2. Agree with Camden Town, also New Look and Topshop which have several locations including Oxford Street

5pokarekareana
sep 9, 2010, 10:23 am

1. Charing Cross Road has quite a few fantastic bookshops (read 84 Charing Cross Road before you go!) and you might also like to check out Oxfam bookshops in the area - from memory, the one near the British Museum on Bloomsbury St was quite good, as was the one on Drury Lane.

2/3. I've never met a teenager who didn't love Camden market; Portobello Road and Greenwich are also pretty popular. Oxford St and Regent St are the main shopping places in London and can be okay if you don't go at the weekend, but they're generally insanely busy. The Westfield shopping centre at Shepherd's Bush is good if its raining, and is easily accessible from central London on tube/bus.

6Nickelini
sep 9, 2010, 12:09 pm

I'm thirding Camden Town --- Nina loved,loved, loved it and still talks about it frequently. There is also a series of YA novels set there that she had read, so it was cool for her to see a part of London that she'd read about. When she gets home from school I'll find out the titles.

7Grammath
Bewerkt: sep 9, 2010, 7:14 pm

If you're staying in Bloomsbury then you should only be a stone's throw from Skoob in the Brunswick Centre. Great selection although on the pricey side for second hand.

Camden is a teenager mecca, I'm sure there'll be something for her, and you might find the Stables area of Camden Market, which mainly focusses on antiques, might have some craft stalls that appeal to you too.

Portobello is probably the best market for the kind of stuff you're looking for. London markets run in all weathers but check which days of the week are best for what things.

8Nickelini
sep 9, 2010, 11:44 pm

There is also a series of YA novels set there that she had read, so it was cool for her to see a part of London that she'd read about. When she gets home from school I'll find out the titles.

Okay, the book series is Mates, Dates . . . the titles are all Mates, Dates & _________. Nina says a 15 yr old would read them, so you might want to let your niece know. By the way, Nina is hugely jealous and would like to apply for adoption as your niece. She will be 15 in December 2011.

9avaland
Bewerkt: sep 10, 2010, 8:11 am

Oh, great suggestions thanks all!

>4 lauralkeet: will check on mail order. Will also check on Bourbon cremes; I'm pretty sure there's chocolate digestives there...

>5 pokarekareana: we'll be in town from Sunday am - Friday am (though Friday it's off to Iceland)

>7 Grammath: very helpful, thanks.

>8 Nickelini: she may have already read them, but that's a good idea.

10avaland
sep 10, 2010, 9:19 am

Another question, are the meat pies often served in pubs still made with lard?

Reasons for asking: a not-to-be-missed traditional UK delight, right? However, I had a British co-worker at the bookstore who made mincemeat pies one holiday season and I thought it might burn a hole in my stomach. The only other thing which has had the same effect is some haggis I had in a Scottish pub in St. Louis, Missouri. Both were made with lard as it turns out.

ok, so who knows the secrets of pub kitchens?

PS: Also on the schedule will be a chicken tikka masala taste test. Do the Indians in the UK do it better than those in the US?

11pokarekareana
sep 10, 2010, 3:10 pm

Most pub food these days is microwaved stuff, and I think the ingredients probably vary from pub to pub. They should be able to tell you what's in it when you order. On the "not to be missed" element; there are a few other dishes that I think of as more typically British - fish and chips, and roast beef with Yorkshire pudding, and then there are some regional dishes that are definitely not to be missed - Google is probably a good place to start!

I've never eaten Indian in America so I don't know, but it's a good idea to ask locals (or just your hotel reception) to recommend a curry house as they'll probably know of a good one and help you avoid a dodgy stomach the next day!

12lauralkeet
sep 10, 2010, 3:37 pm

>10 avaland:: Do the Indians in the UK do it better than those in the US?
Yes. Curry, that is. Can't speak for anything else :)

I agree with pokarekareana, to ask for recommendations. Also, don't be afraid to ask the restaurant staff what they would recommend. There is so much more to Indian food than CTM (which is really a completely Anglicized dish, not "proper" Indian), and the staff can help you find new favorites!

13avaland
sep 10, 2010, 4:08 pm

>11 pokarekareana: yes, you have named the very two other items on my list of things for them to try (I've already been there, done that). Ironically, traditional British food is not so very different from traditional New England food (I wonder why), although recipes were often altered in early America due to having (or not having) different ingredients available. So I doubt the food will have much of a wow effect; however, it is more likely that the accessibility to foods from all over the world will wow them more.

>12 lauralkeet: sending you a care package with both items you inquired about. Will send their business card along with it. I was tempted to send you a jar of Marmite also...

>12 lauralkeet: We are great fans (and longtime veterans) of Indian food--for awhile we had 3 Indian restaurants within a 5 mile radius (it's down to 2 now) and a South Asian market which we shopped at (that's gone since the economy tanked but there's a new one in the next town over). The mall near where my husband works has an Indian restaurant in the food court...so we are not deprived at all... :-)

14avaland
sep 10, 2010, 4:11 pm

>11 pokarekareana: as added note, it seems they should experience some proper scones, don't you think?

15lauralkeet
sep 10, 2010, 9:05 pm

>13 avaland:: care package? for real?! Wow, you are amazing. Also glad to hear you are a seasoned curry aficionado (pun intended btw). I could live on it.

16pokarekareana
sep 11, 2010, 3:27 am

>14 avaland:. Absolutely! I started trying to list regional dishes but got a bit stuck after this one, but yes, a cream tea (scones, jam, cream - preferably clotted!) is a definite must-eat, especially if you find yourself in the south-west of England. I live there and can attest to the yumminess.

Haggis in Scotland, Welshcakes or rarebit (glorified cheese on toast) in Wales, Bakewell pudding but only in Bakewell in Derbyshire (otherwise it's probably not a proper one!) and there are probably lots more that I can't quite think of at this time in the morning!

17Grammath
sep 14, 2010, 5:53 pm

>11 pokarekareana:

I think you're being a little harsh there, pokarekareana. Pub food has improved vastly in recent years thanks to the advent of the gastropub, of which there are several fine examples in north London.

I like The Engineer and The Lansdowne in Primrose Hill (the posh bit of Camden) and The Hill on Haverstock Hill, which is north of Camden leading up to the affluent and rather lovely suburb of Hampstead. Well worth a stroll on the Heath to recover from the hurly burly of Camden Market.

As for curries, there's two areas in central London noted for them, Brick Lane in the East End, which is the centre of the city's Bangladeshi community, and Drummond Street near Euston station, where you're more likely to find south Indian and so largely vegetarian food, so not so good for your chicken tikka masala taste test. All cheap and cheerful and largely BYOB places.

For more upmarket, lavish Indian, try the Red Fort in Soho or Veeraswamy on Regent Street. My personal favourite in London is well off the beaten tourist track, Eriki on the Finchley Road in Swiss Cottage.

18avaland
sep 15, 2010, 11:54 am

>16 pokarekareana: I grew up having a form of Welshrarebit (although as kids we called it welshrabbit - and I'm sure we had no clue what or where Wales was). We always had an abundance of Cheddar cheese, the sharper the better so...

>17 Grammath: thanks for that, Grammath. We are staying just across from London University and Euston station looks to be just a hop and a skip North of us.

19andyl
sep 15, 2010, 12:52 pm

#16

Lots of regional dishes. The problem is a lot of them aren't going to be found in restaurants.

For example fidget pie or stuffed chine or Lincolnshire Plum Bread or Abroath Smokies or bloaters and loads more. Also if in London traditional pie and mash with liquor. Also don't forget stuff like regional sausages and Melton Mowbray pork pie and regional cheeses which are worth seeking out if you can find the non-mass market versions.

20avaland
okt 4, 2010, 9:05 am

Anyone have a suggestion of a decent pub in the Bloomsbury area where a group of LTers could meet? Perhaps one with some flexible seating? (and one where I can bring a 15 year old?)

Also, you'll be amused to know that a new restaurant has opened in town called The British Beer Company. Not sure how wide ranging the chain is, might be just our state. The food is about comparable to other chains, imo (it moved into a spot that Applebees abandoned).

And thanks for the tips everyone. As we are getting closer to the trip, I'm starting to come back to this thread more and more.

21Cariola
okt 5, 2010, 5:00 pm

Be sure to visit the food court at Harrod's!

As to a meeting place, why not the Persephone Shop in Lamb's Conduit? I didn't make it in January due to the snowstorm, but I here there is a cafe nearby.

22andyl
okt 5, 2010, 6:55 pm

I don't know what pub is best - but there shouldn't be too much problem taking a 15 y/o into most pubs (although there are still a few landlords who will object - you just have to give it a go) with you during the day esp. if ordering food. There are some pubs around Lamb's Conduit St. but that area can get fairly busy at times.

23Nickelini
okt 5, 2010, 7:45 pm

My understanding with the pubs was that underage people are okay until 8PM -- but I don't know if that rule is everywhere or just in some places.

24andyl
okt 6, 2010, 4:58 am

#23

It isn't an official rule. Some pubs, especially those with a strong food focus, will allow accompanied underage people in even in the evening. It is all up to the landlord.

25lydiasbooks
okt 6, 2010, 8:56 am

Fun is had. If people are in London during BookCrossing meetups/ arrange them off bat, pubs with books and all ages happen.
Second Tuesday evening of each month with occasional additional meetups as and when. London and anywhere near (ie Central) is here http://www.meetup.com/bookcrossing-41/ and there also be Hampstead (usually on one of the last few Wednesdays of month) at http://www.meetup.com/The-Hampstead-Bookcrossing-Meetup-Group/

One can usually also get tea, coffee, J20, lime & lemonade and plates of chips or at the very least a bag of peanuts in any pub fairly easily. The map of OBCZ's in the world is a handy starting place although one does have to check that places still exist on occasion. The Camel & Artichoke (Waterloo - bookshops and overpriced knitting café shop down the street), The White Horse (Hampstead, thai food is gorgeous but books only brought upstairs on special occasions ie meetups), The Old Shades (Whitehall) are all current and can have accompanied underage people in. The first and last have shelves for all to see, with some of everyone's books on. Books of your own can be added without being on BC, but more fun if they are as one sees what occurs after leaving town.

Markets are not ideal places to be if slightly clueless regarding personal belongings; otherwise fun.

26avaland
okt 8, 2010, 5:27 pm

>25 lydiasbooks: I'm assuming this is general information for the group?
>21 Cariola: I doubt the bookshops will be open on a Tuesday evening, and while they would be quieter than a pub, I doubt they are serving food of a gastronomical kind:-)

27avaland
okt 16, 2010, 3:17 pm

>17 Grammath: Drummond Street does not look to be too far from where we are as we are staying on Gower Street.

Again, thanks for all the suggestions everyone. I will be jotting down careful notes from here before I leave.

Next questions:

Any suggestions for best used book stores on Charing Cross Road or Bloomsbury or in the touristy areas if one is looking for used contemporary lit (last 20 years), UK authors....

And King's Cross has some connection with Harry Potter? (have not read the books, will I still be let into the country?) Is that the station or the area?

28andyl
okt 16, 2010, 3:45 pm

For Harry Potter it is King's Cross Station - Platform 9 and 3/4s.

29andyl
okt 16, 2010, 4:02 pm

Second hand / remainder bookshops. Well Henry Pordes will probably have some but they also do fairly expensive books as well also Any Amount Of Books and Bookends on Charing Cross Road. Skoob Books and Judd Books are worth looking in as well.

30Nickelini
okt 16, 2010, 5:07 pm

#27 - In each of the Harry Potter books, the kids leave muggle London life for Hogwarts by taking the Hogwarts Express train from Platform 9 3/4 at Kings Cross. In the real King's Cross station they've set up a luggage cart part way through a brick wall so tourists can pose and pretend they're going to Hogwart's too. When I was there in 2009 it was stuck in a back corner of the station but apparently that's because they were renovating. So it might be moved now.

31avaland
okt 20, 2010, 9:13 pm

>28 andyl: - 30 thanks!

32andyl
okt 21, 2010, 4:11 am

#30

I don't think it is so much as a back corner but between platforms 9 and 10 which are in a rather tucked away position in the station and not with the other (larger) platforms.

33Grammath
okt 21, 2010, 5:46 am

The confusing thing is JK actually made a mistake. At the real King's Cross station Platforms 1 to 8 are in the main shed and platforms 9 to 11, from which most suburban services leave are in a smaller shed to one side. There isn't actually a wall between platforms 9 and 10, but there is a big space between platforms 8 and 9. If the Hogwarts Express departed from platform 8 3/4 it would make more sense, but I guess that's part of the magic.

The luggage trolley embedded in the wall used to be just before you entered the platform 9-11 shed from the main shed, but there is renovation work going on around there as I write, so it might have been moved.

34avaland
okt 24, 2010, 8:02 pm

>32 andyl: so if I head for platform 9...or 10, we should find whatever is there?

My niece is starting to get excited now with less than 2 weeks to go. Today I noticed she has told her friends on FaceBook that she will be meeting some "sexy British men". Would anyone like to tell me which part of the city we would find that? (she also told them she would be a King's Cross, so looks like we'll be making that side trip...)

35Cariola
okt 24, 2010, 10:20 pm

34> It all depends on what kind of sexy you like. I've run across some sexy men in the British Library (but I'm guessing they wouldn't be your niece's type!).

36Nickelini
okt 24, 2010, 11:50 pm

#34 -

1. We headed for the platform between 9 & 10 but got confused and still needed to ask. At least once.

2. Nina says there were sexy men at Camden Market. I remember seeing sexy men on the metro in Paris, but I guess when we were in England it was too hot to notice, or I only had eyes for my husband. (Colin Firth and Hugh Grant were no where to be seen.)

37aluvalibri
okt 25, 2010, 9:12 am

In my times, I remember seeing sexy men at Covent Garden market (NOT the fruit one) and, being observant, in other locations too.
In fact, in London I met some among the best looking men I ever saw!

38avaland
okt 25, 2010, 8:57 pm

I think a photo shoot with either William or Harry might be a good start...

39avaland
nov 18, 2010, 4:42 pm

Just want to thank everyone for their assistance in our trip planning, we had a terrific trip. As a bonus, I seemed to be on the protest circuit, attending involuntarily the huge student protest that made international news and another smaller protest the next day near the V&A protesting the UK's involvement in the Afghan and Iraqi wars (I think).

I love, love, love the black taxis. NYC should take a lesson from them. They drive sanely, speak understandable English, know the roads and what are on them, and most are very cordial and informative. There are 24,000 black cabs in London, they tell me.

My niece adored the various Camden markets and spent all of her babysitting money (which is probably why she wasn't spending much in Iceland). I found a used bookshop in Camden Lock and managed to pick up a couple of books. Mostly I enjoyed the eclectic array of goods for sale in the market.

40Nickelini
nov 18, 2010, 4:49 pm

I found a used bookshop in Camden Lock and managed to pick up a couple of books.

I saw that shop! My family wouldn't let me go within 10 yard of it. Something about wanting to see London, not books. I don't know what they were on about.

41thorold
nov 19, 2010, 8:08 am

>36 Nickelini:,37
Old Compton Street was the place, when I was last in London. But they might not have been very interested in your niece...

42avaland
nov 19, 2010, 8:04 pm

>36 Nickelini: We found Prince William postcards at the Tower for her. And there were plenty of good-looking dummies in Madame Tussaud's. A few cast in Les Mis but less in Billy Elliot.

>40 Nickelini: it was just over the Venetian-like pedestrian bridge and next to a leather shop. I picked up a Susan Hill and a Nicola Barker there. I did go into a few used shops on Charing Cross but their fiction sections were terrible, I thought. Didn't have time for more. Managed to pick up the new Iain Banks for the hubby in Heathrow, though (but really why buy new books there and lug them home when there is the Book Depository?)

43Nickelini
sep 13, 2011, 4:18 pm

Just found: the top 100 most beautiful British slang words http://www.anglotopia.net/british-identity/humor/top-100-most-beautiful-british-...

from the website anglotopia.net

Have fun!

44Cariola
sep 13, 2011, 6:59 pm

They still say "Bees knees" over there? I thought that went out in the 1920s.

They must talk a lot about penises, since there are so many words for them.

There are a lot of words and phrases that I use . . . must be all the Brit lit I read.

45Nickelini
sep 13, 2011, 7:35 pm

There are a lot of words and phrases that I use

Yeah, I thought that too. Thought maybe it was growing up in Canada (we like to mix our Brit-isms and USianisms). Some of those are just normal words for me. My 'Murkin sister-in-law sometimes does a double take at something I will say and I'm always puzzled by which word in the sentence she didn't know. She still laughs about my mom saying "serviette" instead of "napkin." (Or is serviette a Canadian thing that we picked up from the French? I don't even know)

46Cariola
sep 13, 2011, 9:21 pm

45> The first time I went to London, I got laughed at for asking for a napkin instead of a serviette; apparently "napkins" are sanitary pads.

47Nickelini
sep 14, 2011, 12:08 am

I'm perpetually confused -- here in Canada all packages have English and French on them. I think the French on sanitary pads is serviette. And to my mom it was a napkin. Aaargh!

48andyl
sep 14, 2011, 4:56 am

#43

Some of the definitions are wrong on that list.

#46

Really, who told you that. That isn't my experience and I've lived in the UK all my life. Napkins vs Serviette is often held up to be a U vs non-U thing, however these days I think a lot of people would use serviette to be the paper variety and use napkin for a proper cotton one. BTW I am male so not overly familiar with sanitary pads but the adverts tend to call them sanitary towels.

49pokarekareana
sep 14, 2011, 6:08 am

Serviette is definitely an English word, and it refers to something that would generally be acceptable to put on the dinner table in polite society. I think it used to refer to sanitary towels (is it bad I almost wrote "sanity towels"?) but that's not a usage I've ever really heard - I only know it existed once upon a time because my grandmother had a pile of women's magazines from the 1960s that I used to like looking at.

I consider myself to be a reasonably verbose person, but I've never heard of "strawberry creams","twigs and berries" or "dobber". Clearly my education has been somewhat lacking.

>48 andyl: - I agree, some definitions are wrong or misleading...
#9 - Chuffed - not just proud; I would use this for any situation in which you're pleased - you could be chuffed that it's Friday.
#10 - Fancy - "Like" isn't quite right. Two contexts I think it is most often used; 1. To say that you find someone attractive, 2. Something you feel like having/doing, e.g. "I fancy a cup of tea".
#14 - Sorted - it's a bit more than "arranged"; I would normally assume that it refers to a problem which has been fixed. I think you would quite often say "sorted out".
#20 - Wonky; usually refers to something that is slightly out of place, e.g. "That picture hanging on the wall is a bit wonky; shall I sort it out?"
#28 - Punter - this refers to any kind of customer, not just a prostitute's!
#30 - Quid - A quid is £1, ten quid is £10; you always say "quid" (not "quids") no matter how many you've got.
#31 - Taking the piss - Making a joke at someone's expense.
#40 - Bugger - also used as an all-purpose swear word directed at nobody in particular, e.g. when stubbing your toe or dropping a piano down a flight of stairs.
#54 - Dog's dinner. I think this as "dressed nicely" is a bit antiquated, I've used it to describe a total mess, e.g. "You've made a dog's dinner of that homework". Use with caution!
#55 - Up for it - not specific for sex, could be used in reference to having pie for dinner, going to the cinema, or watching another episode of "Fawlty Towers".
#70 - Bollocks - also used as all-purpose swearword, much like bugger above.
#76 - Daft cow - refers specifically to a female who is an idiot. Men will probably get a bit confused if you call them a daft cow. Cow is generally used as an insult to women but makes no sense when used to refer to men.

Well, that was a good use of 15 minutes!

50andyl
sep 14, 2011, 6:38 am

#49

Well it depends on how polite your polite society is. Serviette is the non-U word.

Also for the list.

Throw a spanner in the works is wrong too. If used in an active sense it means to purposefully cause something to fail (the supplied definition of screw up doesn't capture the purposefully for me). It can also be used in a passive sense about an unforeseen problem which may not have an active cause.

Horses For Courses is wrong too. It should mean "what is suitable for one might be unsuitable for another."

Like you I've never heard of "strawberry creams" or "twigs and berries". I haven't heard "Gentleman Sausage" either in that exact form but in lots of related forms.
Dobber I've heard but not with that meaning. For me to dob someone in is to tell tales on them, so a dobber is like a grass. Apparently (according to my research) dobber == penis is a Glasgow usage.

51Nickelini
sep 14, 2011, 10:31 am

#43 Some of the definitions are wrong on that list.

I noticed that too--thought I was losing my mind on the "chuffed" and "sorted" ones in particular. I have to admit I posted the list before I read it, but I still think we've had fun with it. And they did title it "most beautiful," not most common, or most useful, or anything. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I certainly don't think all these words are beautiful. Or even particularly British. For example, the euphemisms for drunk on the list--really? I don't see any of them as unique to Britain. Anyway, it's entertaining.

52pokarekareana
sep 14, 2011, 4:19 pm

It certainly IS entertaining! I hadn't realised how many things I say that are just so ridiculously British.

53avaland
sep 18, 2011, 2:31 pm

Moderately entertaining, Joyce, especially the discussions here of sanitary towels/napkins/pads (oh, pokare, you make me feel positively ancient!), though I think the overemphasis on penile slang suggests more about the person behind the list, than the Brits, in general (I have not noticed them to be more p-centered than other cultures...)

I have heard the phrase "twigs and berries" and want to say that I heard it via British comedy somewhere over the years....but I can't be sure. A quick Google search suggests I probably heard it in one of the "Austen Powers" movies...