Did LEC ever have a "low point"?

Sorry if this seems like a vague question. I'm new to LEC, and I'm curious if there is any period of time when production quality dipped. I see that in the 1970s, the club was passed around a bit. Should I be concerned about the quality of books published during that or any other time period?

Thanks.

It's difficult to develop the criteria one would use to determine what a "low point" would consist of. There were times during their publication history when the LEC was batting a thousand--the 2nd half of the 1930s saw a succession of masterpieces that are still among the most desirable and accomplished books of the 20th century. Following the US entry into WW II, there were shortages of first-rate materials, and first-rate technicians, and if you read the Monthly Letters from this period, you will frequently find George Macy complaining about the quality of the paper or binding materials available, or the quality of the presswork--cf. his apology about the quality of the printing in The Innocent Voyage, for example. But even then you had great editorial choices, brilliant designers, and beautiful illustrations to offset the slightly inferior production standards (and only inferior to what the LEC had been producing). Not to mention masterpieces such as the Benton-illustrated Life on the Mississippi, the jewel-like Vathek (and what an inspired and unconventional choice that book was), and the monumental Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.

I suppose the point most would describe as the nadir of the LEC was from 1970 to 1978 when the Macy family sold it to Boise-Cascade, who then sold it to Cardavon: the 38th through the 44th series. The editorial choices made then often lacked discrimination or daring or both, though the quality of the production scarcely changed, and maintained very high standards throughout. There were still masterpieces: Of Mice and Men, The Book of the Dead, Childhood, Boyhood, and Youth, The Martian Chronicles, A Raw Youth, Thucydides' Peloponnesian Wars, and Jurgen; but to return to my baseball analogy, the LEC during this period was a .385 hitter--still very respectable but with more misses and bloop singles than solid hits. After Sid Shiff bought the LEC, productions standards, and prices, rose stratospherically, but for me the editorial choices were often too arcane to be of interest, no matter how sumptuously presented, and though the LEC was never egalitarian to the extent that the Heritage Club was, it was still, in the pre-Shiff era affordable to most true bibliophiles (people who would probably value fine books above such other demands on one's discretionary purchasing power as Rolex watches and Mercedes automobiles).

I found, in my long association with the LEC, that quality didn't suffer so much by changes in ownership but by material selection. The books bound in the 40s used sheepskin a lot, and whether problems occurred due to dyes or taning, certain books are almost impossible to find in Fine condition: Moby Dick, Mutiny on the Bounty, and The Red and the Black. Most of the books of the late 30s or 40s bound in sheepskin and sometimes those bound in calfskin cannot be found in Fine condition and must be rebound to achieve that condition.

As for the Shiff era, when Shiff took over ownership, the books drastically improved in quality. This was when the titles were from the pre-Shiff era, but the production was presumably accomplished by Shiff. These titles include The Leopard, One Hundred Years of Solitude, Simplissimus, Hiroshima, The Fall of the House of Usher, and a few others. This was a great time to belong to the club since 1500 copies of each book was being produced at a member cost of less than $100 per book, if you paid your subscription in advance.

This was not to last though since shortly thereafter Shiff initiated the Livres d'Artiste era, although some of Shiff's selection were superb such as the Kingdom of This World, Oedipus, and Hunting Stories.

When the copies went from 1500 to 300 and the price was raised to a subscription price of $5,000 per year, the club became too expensive for me and only a few titles were of interest. I have purchased a few of the the books from the later Shiff era, such as the beautiful Hemingway, The Old Man and the Sea, when I could get a good price for the book. I paid $943 for the Hemingway on ebay which, although pricey, was worth it.

To summarize, The 30s were the decade of beautiful book design and illustration, but it's Caveate Emptor. You must be able to query sellers and get optimum book quality for your money.

The decade of the 40s saw some beautiful designs also, but anything bound in sheepskin is suspect. However, If you can find a leather-bound LEC for a good price and rebind it, you will have something which can't be replicated in today's market. If you can locate a superb LEC for $100 to $150, then rebind it for about $400, you will have a great book which can't be purchased for the $500 or so dollars the book will cost you.

The books of the 50s, 60s, and 70s can be had for good prices if you are selective and know your seller.

The early Shiff books up through 1985 (the last year covered by the Bibliography) are generally good buys. There are a few of the Livres d'Artiste books I would like to have, but find their Price prohibitive.

Thanks for those two extremely thoughtful replies. That's exactly what I was looking for, which is to say, some informed opinions about what the watch out for generally when shopping for LECs. I'm not at the stage yet of collecting just to collect. I'm only interested in titles I'll actually read, but I'd rather start with some knowledge about what to avoid as much as what to seek.

So far, the only LEC in my collection is the 1938 Les Miserables signed by Lynd Ward, which I got in fine condition for $145. The only damage whatsoever is some chipping to the front edge of the slipcase. It's an absolutely beautiful set, the finest I own, at this point, being very new to this sort of collecting. I just placed an order for a "very good+" 1952 The Singular Adventures of Baron Munchausen, which I only discovered after ordering has the chip-prone sheepskin binding. We'll see how that looks when it arrives. I paid $57 for it.

> I would not worry so much on the sheepskin. Don may be right that it is prone to be difficult to find in great condition -- but, I have many, many LEC's with sheepskin that are outstanding and beautiful.

Frankly, I don't mind a little wear, as long as it doesn't impact the durability of the book, such as a loose spine, or diminish the aesthetic value too much. A few chips in the sheepskin aren't a huge concern to me; my goal is not to resell these for a profit, or even to achieve a pristine museum-quality collection. I just want a few (to start) of my favorite books in fine press editions that offer that tangible, visceral joy largely missing from mass-market books (and entirely absent from the e-book experience). If more people today had the opportunity to hold a letterpress edition with hand-colored illustrations in their hands, I believe they would be more inclined to read and less inclined to turn to a thin slab of glowing plastic. Not that I don't find uses for my Kindle, but it's had the opposite of the intended effect: its bland sameness, almost fascist-like adherence to uniformity of style has driven me to seek out books like the Heritage Press Salomé that are as much pieces of art to be admired as they are books to be read.

Anyway, I'm straying from the topic, and I thought of another related question. Is there a point in time at which LEC stopped issuing letterpress editions? Since picking up Les Mis, I'm really infatuated with the look and feel of letterpress.

Busywine - What is beautiful to one man is grotesque to another. I won't buy sheepskin bound LECs unless I intend to rebind them. I hesitate to call you on this, but I have been buyng LECs from 1965 and onward, and most of the LECs bound in sheep- or calfskin are definitely not in Fine condition. I'll agree that 30s and 40s LECs are beautiful on the inside, but rubbed or flaking books are not my forte.

Bill Majure had a Moby Dick which was badly rubbed for $450. I just won't buy books like that. I finally found one that was missing both spines on the two volumes for $170 which I will rebind. What I object to is your saying you have many, many sheepskin LECs which are beautiful. You don't give the book condition though. I would guess that you don't have one sheepskin LEC which is in Fine condition; that is, no mars including sunning or rubbing. Some are satisfied with less. As a collector, I am not. Every time I see an LEC I might want and I query the seller, I find the described book is not in Fine conditon.

I am not trying to cast aspersionsonsons on your tastes or books, but the only way to evaluate books is by condition. When a seller says near Fine, he is not giving the buyer an adequate description of condition. Perhaps books are like women: Their beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I do'nt think the LEC ever just stopped printing letterpress. They did stop setting handset type and went to linotype or other typesetting methods. After the 30s, many books were printed offset. I think Looking Backward was printed offset, but I'm not sure. Offset offered many advantages for color work, not requiring spot colors etc. It generally tells in the LEC Bibliography when offset printing was used.

>7 leccol:
I appreciate your comments, leccol, because I'm still working to understand what to expect from grading, and also determine exactly just what sort of condition I'm willing to live with. If I can get a very nicely-priced LEC I'm interested in with a fine textblock, but some rubbing or sunning to the covers/spine, I can live with it. Maybe that's just me passing through the first phase of collecting. :-)

Don, I agree I should not have said "many, many". However, since I post hundreds of books on my website, I think it would be hard to argue successfully that I do not know what a fine condition book is. :-) What I object to is generalization which does a disservice to those starting out. Yes, the sheepskin bindings may not, in general, have worn as well as others, but the key words are 'in general'. Don is right in terms of doing good evaluation, especially when buying something expensive. But, if your intent is not to rebind like Don's is, and you are willing to spend the money, and are patient, 'damn good' (how is that for avoiding 'fine') copies do exist of pretty much every LEC ever created. And, if you can live with some rubbing or sunning, all the better, as you will spend much less. :-)

By the way, Britchey, the 52 Munchausen is not bound in sheepskin, but in black polished calfskin. The calfskin LECs did not deteriorate as badly as the sheepskin if taken care of. Unfortunately many owners did not keep their books conditioned with the proper leather conditioner. I have the 1929 Munchausen and have been looking for the 1952 edition, but so far have not found one. The 29 Munchausen is not too hard to find in decent condition.

I have two sheepskin books which are as near to Fine as you can get: Idylls of the King and Old Creole Days. Out of 500 LECs,I only have one in Fine Condition, no mars. It is the Ring and the Book by Robert Browning; it is an unpopular book which I bought on ebay, but it has absolutely no flaking or rubbing. Maybe it is in such excellent condition because of its unpopularity. Most leather books pre-1970 should be conditioned once per year if they are made of real leather and not bonded leather. It's funny,but the Easton Press books hold up better than the more expensive books. Probably because they are made of bonded leather and not prone to dry out. But they don't have the look or feel of real leather.

Don, you have probably answered again, but what conditioner do you use?

BTW, you have me curious as to what shape my Idylls of the King is, going to go run and look!

I've got three LEC sheepskin bound books The Book of Ruth, The Book of Job, and The Canterbury Tales which are in great shape - perhaps because they all came from the same subscriber?

>2 Django6924:
"the jewel-like Vathek"

That IS a jewel. The hand-illuminated Salomé by Valenti Angelo is gorgeous. I'll be seeking out a nice copy of Vathek immediately!

No need to start an argument, but I will have to agree with busywine that not all sheepskin-bound LECs are de facto candidates for rebinding, and that they are almost impossible to find in "Fine" condition. The sheepskin-bound LECs I have that are in "Fine" condition--no flaking, rubbing, cracking--are:Tales of Soldiers and Civilians, History of the Conquest of New Spain, The Ring and the Book, Idylls of the King, The Way of All Flesh, The Red and the Black, The Poems of Whittier, and Old Creole Days.

The sheepskin-bound LECs I have I would consider as "Mint" or "As New" are The Innocent Voyage, The Book of the Prophet Isaiah, History of the Conquest of Peru, and The Talisman.

leccoll is probably right that it is impossible to find a copy of Moby Dick in truly "Fine" condition--or even "Very Good" for that matter, and the same is true of Mutiny on the Bounty. Although I have seen "Fine" examples of the Szyk Canterbury Tales, Job and Ruth, these were in private libraries and the ones you find for sale are invariably not Fine. I don't think this is a fault in either sheepskin nor calf per se, but in the dyes used. Aniline dyes tend to be very corrosive when used on sheepskin (and wool!) and unpolished calf-- especially if the book is handled and the salts present in human perspiration are added to the mixture. I think the reason why the examples busywine, kdweber, and I have that we rate as "Fine" are in the condition they are in is that they were seldom handled. Virtually all the books I listed above were still in their glassine or paper dust jackets when I bought them. What this means, of course, is that most of the books you find for sale on e-bay and at many booksellers were not books that were particularly cherished by the owners--or the owner's survivors. I remember the estate auction of a famous Hollywood composer's LEC collection, and there were immaculate examples of virtually every book from Gulliver's Travels through the early 1970s. (I wish I could remember the Moby Dick, but it was a case of sensory overload! I'm sure if it was there, it was also "Fine," as both the Ulysses and The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, the books I really, really wanted, were "Very Fine.")

Based on what I have seen busywine post on his blog, and from what I know about kdweber's discrimination when it comes to a book's condition--having sold him some of my relative's books--I have no doubt when they say they have a "Fine" copy, you can take their evaluation to the bank. But I agree with leccoll that sellers want outrageous prices for some of the harder to find LECs in condition I would usually describe as "Good" or "Fair" though they describe it as 'Near Fine." Much better, as he suggests, to find a reasonably-priced copy with good text block though unacceptable binding and spend the extra hundreds on a fine rebinding. I happen to have a House of the Seven Gables with a detached front board that will be rebound as soon as I have the extra cash.

PS: When leccoll says the LEC stopped printing letterpress and went with offset, he may have been misled by the descriptions on the bibliography; though the LEC started using offset for color printing of illustrations when the process became greatly improved in the 1950s, and used it before though not that frequently, LEC texts were virtually all printed letterpress throughout the company's life, although as leccoll states, there was less use of handset type and more reliance on linotype as the costs of handset type for long books became cost-prohibitive. (And according to my Monthly Letter, Looking Backward is hand set in 12 point Bodoni, not the linotype Bodoni Book as used on the LEC Carmen with an unusual 12 points of leading, creating "a wide-open page that would be anathema to Gutenberg," and of which one suspects Macy himself was not overly fond, either.)

>9 britchey:
Im with you britchey. I dont mind a bit of sunning to the slipcase or dustjackets. As long as the books themselves are fine. The george macy LEC's are, to me, amazing books for reading pleasure with great illlustrations and are an amazing bargain to boot with a slipcase/dustjacket that are less then fine.
I didnt really appreciate letterpress and typography after i read a couple of LEC books.

Django - Just rebound my copy of the House of the Seven Gables. Came out beautifully bound in 1/2 black Nigerian with a blood red bookcloth on boards and hand marbled end pages. Cost was about $400.

Of the sheepskin books you have that are Fine, I agree with most, but in spite of extensive searches, I have never seen a Red and the Black or The Way of All Flesh in anything but in Good to Poor condition. I have rebound Red and Black in Scarlet Nigerian and black linen boards, and will have to look for an All Flesh. I have the rest that you listed as Fine also in Fine condition. Or as near to Fine as one can get.

The ones you have listed as Mint I also have in Mint condition. The Talisman is listed in bibliography as being bound in Black Persian Sheepskin, whatever that is.

The three Szyk books I have, but was unable to find them in anything but good condition so they are awaiting rebinding in white goatskin. I have seen Canterbury Tales listed on ebay for $500 plus. I bought mine from Bill Majure for $150 and it is at the binder now. I suspect these will get harder and harder to find in Fine condition in the future.

I was wrong about Looking Backward being printed offset. Being printed in LA, I thought maybe newer technology was used. In any event, I have a Fine copy that resides in a new slipcase. The plastic slipcase in which this one came was one of Macy's bigest faux pas.

I know that a limited amount of LECs were printed offset, certainly not all of them after a certain point. The illustrations printed offset with process colors had to be a lot less expensive and pretty good quality versus hand coloring.

I did forget one sheepskin: I've never seen a Tales of Soldiers and Civilians in Fine Condition. I finally gave up and bought a much deteriorated copy for $45. Now I have to determine how I want it rebound.

>17 leccol: Did you have a traditional slipcase built for your copy of Looking Backwards? They didn't know enough about how plastic ages back then. I believe Robert has two copies - one permanently stuck in its slipcase and the other without any slipcase so it can be read. Like most recent purchasers I bought my copy without the slipcase.

When Looking Backward was published, Macy had a plastic slipcase made for it, I suppose to commemorate newer technology. The books went into their plastic cases ok, but they wouldn't come out. Some had to break the case to get their book out. I bought my copy much, much later and had a case made for it. Like all my cases, it is covered in book cloth on the outside and the inside is covered in a French velour. A paper label is attached to the case rear. The rear labels are computer generated and in color.

Nice slip cases are expensive to make as are solanders. But they enhance the book considerably. Cloth covered cases as described above run $45 -$55, depending on the book size.

The solanders or clam shell boxes made by the LEC were not very good until Shiff started making them. I have had custon solanders made for a number of LECs. These run from $100 to $150, again depending on the book size.

>19 leccol:

I'd just like to make one small point about your comment "when Looking Backward was published, Macy had a plastic slipcase made for it, I suppose to commemorate newer technology." In fact, it was the book's designer, Merle Armitage, who made the decision to use plastic, a decision Macy was not particularly wild about. In the Monthly Letter he makes the contrast several times between Armitage, "that bull-in-a-china-shop" who "follows no traditions...{possibly because) he doesn't know the traditions," and "we conservatives" among whom Macy numbered himself.

The slipcase itself is made of "plastacele,"

By the year 2000 rolls around, a material like plastacele will unquestionably be a cheap material; but now it is an expensive material and we admit, but not with pride, that we were forced to spend as much money for the making of the slip-case as for the binding itself!

One should always keep in mind when criticizing Macy for things like binding choices, fonts, etc., that when he assigned another designer to a book, he normally let them proceed as they saw fit, as long as they were cognizant of budgetary constraints. (When he did the design himself, budgetary straits seem to be pretty much non-existent.)

It's nice to learn about some of the history of the LECs "errors", but Macy, being the CEO of the LEC, is like a field general in that he must be held responsible for the actions of his troops. You are a lot closer to the "history" of the LEC than I am, so I like the touches you provide, but when I say "Macy", I am generally referring to Macy the CEO, not Macy the designer etc.

In the same vein, Shiff must be held responsible for the decline and fall of the LEC no matter how beautiful were the books the LEC produced during his reign. His obstinacy about producing books off the mainstream of literary thought brought about the demise of the LEC which had become an American icon of Fine press publishing.

>1 britchey: "I see that in the 1970s, the club was passed around a bit. Should I be concerned about the quality of books published during that or any other time period?"

My very first LEC book, which I bought completely blind and as a bit of a leap of faith following the advice of our friends in this and the other fine press groups here, was Kafka's The Trial (1975). I was comparing it the other day with my Folio Society LE of Candide, and in terms of production quality it is at least the equal in every facet and superior in some, most obviously the printing. That was two years ago and I'm now up to 36 LEC volumes which is not a great many in comparison with some here, but with the exception of that first book, I think all the others have been purchased in the UK, where LECs are far less common and often have far higher prices - although I have been able to score my fair share of bargains, which I probably would never have got had I been in the US. Within my LEC collection I have books from every decade from the very first publication, Gulliver's Travels (1929) up to The Trial which remains my youngest LEC book. The only one which I have been less than delighted with upon receipt was Galsworthy's The Man of Property (1964), which struck me as being slightly boring in design, even if of good quality. But you know what? I've just had another look at it now, and I've revised my opinion, enjoying touches such as the speckled page edges and the double sided illustrations - each of Mozley's main illustrations has an etching on the reverse - it's a really nice book, just like all the others.

I wouldn't worry about any LEC "time period". From1950 through 1985 where the Bibliography ends, most can be had in acceptable condition. Of course there are a few which are difficult to obtain in Fine condition. The Gulliver's Travels of 1950 is generally overpriced by sellers, as is the Robert Frost Poems. I lucked onto the Gulliver's Travels last year when I found Fine copies for $330.

Once the popularity of certain books is found to drive up the price, sellers seem to want to charge a rediculous amount for a copy no better than good.

I'm not missing many from 1950 until 1985, and I have several post 1985 books. The ones which leave a hole in my bookcase shelves are Baron Munchausen, The Golden Cockerel, Sherlock Holmes Series, Emily Dickinson, Heirich Heine, and Wilhelm Meister's Apprenticeship. I have all others except the Evergreen Tales, and I will pay a reasonable price for any of these, but they must be in Fine condition.

>7 leccol:

Was just browsing through old threads and saw this. Pretty much the same for me. I picked up worn copies of Moby Dick for cheap. Just received my rebound books from Starr Bookwords today. Black harmatan goatskin, titles in silver. Nothing too fancy, but centuries more durable than the original bindings.

>24 MobyRichard: Pictures please! Don (leccol) passes away a few years ago. I am fortunate to have his Moby Dick.

>25 BuzzBuzzard:

Oh, I'm sorry to hear that :(. Beautiful volumes. Glad they went to someone with the same passion for books.

I probably should post pictures. Any free picture sharing websites that people recommend?

I use https://www.flickr.com/ There are other options too. You can even use LT for this but picture quality wont be great.

>26 MobyRichard: Check this out: https://www.librarything.com/topic/226333

Some of Don 's books that went to members of this forum.

>28 BuzzBuzzard:

>29 MobyRichard: