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1richardbsmith
John 3:1-17
There was a Pharisee named Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews. He came to Jesus by night and said to him, "Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God; for no one can do these signs that you do apart from the presence of God."
Jesus answered him, "Very truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above."
Nicodemus said to him, "How can anyone be born after having grown old? Can one enter a second time into the mother's womb and be born?"
Jesus answered, "Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be astonished that I said to you, 'You must be born from above.' The wind blows where it chooses, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."
Nicodemus said to him, "How can these things be?"
Jesus answered him, "Are you a teacher of Israel, and yet you do not understand these things?
"Very truly, I tell you, we speak of what we know and testify to what we have seen; yet you do not receive our testimony. If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you about heavenly things? No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life.
"Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him."
There was a Pharisee named Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews. He came to Jesus by night and said to him, "Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God; for no one can do these signs that you do apart from the presence of God."
Jesus answered him, "Very truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above."
Nicodemus said to him, "How can anyone be born after having grown old? Can one enter a second time into the mother's womb and be born?"
Jesus answered, "Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be astonished that I said to you, 'You must be born from above.' The wind blows where it chooses, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."
Nicodemus said to him, "How can these things be?"
Jesus answered him, "Are you a teacher of Israel, and yet you do not understand these things?
"Very truly, I tell you, we speak of what we know and testify to what we have seen; yet you do not receive our testimony. If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you about heavenly things? No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life.
"Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him."
2richardbsmith
Collect
Almighty and everlasting God, you have given to us your servants grace, by the confession of a true faith, to acknowledge the glory of the eternal Trinity, and in the power of your divine Majesty to worship the Unity: Keep us steadfast in this faith and worship, and bring us at last to see you in your one and eternal glory, O Father; who with the Son and the Holy Spirit live and reign, one God, for ever and ever. Amen.
Almighty and everlasting God, you have given to us your servants grace, by the confession of a true faith, to acknowledge the glory of the eternal Trinity, and in the power of your divine Majesty to worship the Unity: Keep us steadfast in this faith and worship, and bring us at last to see you in your one and eternal glory, O Father; who with the Son and the Holy Spirit live and reign, one God, for ever and ever. Amen.
3richardbsmith
I tend to think the quotations for Jesus' last words end after "how can you believe if I tell you about heavenly things?"
And that all that follows seems to me to be from the evangelist as the narrator:
No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life.
Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
The whole gospel of John is very hard for me to understand. It is hard for me to understand even what the words mean.
I guess I am further away from the heavenly things than was Nicodemus.
And that all that follows seems to me to be from the evangelist as the narrator:
No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life.
Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
The whole gospel of John is very hard for me to understand. It is hard for me to understand even what the words mean.
I guess I am further away from the heavenly things than was Nicodemus.
4ambrithill
I noticed that you have not done the next lesson, which I must say I am sorry to see. I have not had the opportunity to respond to any of the lessons yet, but I certainly will when I get back from England next week. I don't have any quiet space to think about them (especially with grandchildren crawling on my leg, like one of them is doing now) but do look forward to spending more time with them. So keep them coming.
5ambrithill
What in this passage makes you think that the last part is from the narrator instead of Jesus? As someone who does not know Greek I am just curious if there is something that you see in the Greek that causes you to come to this conclusion or if you have some other reasoning.
6richardbsmith
Primarily the change to 3rd person. The shift in persons is as evident in English as it is in Greek. In the English translations though the punctuation makes it difficult to recognize such alternatives.
In the Greek text, the punctuation marks are not so determined. So the reader has to select among different alternatives.
While it is the shift in persons that suggests moving the quote back to 12, I think that the passage flows better with the narrator stepping in at 13 with a commentary on the Nicodemus exchange.
In the Greek text, the punctuation marks are not so determined. So the reader has to select among different alternatives.
While it is the shift in persons that suggests moving the quote back to 12, I think that the passage flows better with the narrator stepping in at 13 with a commentary on the Nicodemus exchange.
7ambrithill
Could the change in verse 11 be because Jesus is now referring to Himself and the Holy Spirit together? Also, it makes sense to me as it is because Jesus didn't speak specifically of Himself, per se, as coming down from heaven, at least in John, where we see "the Son of Man" theme so well.
8richardbsmith
Of course, any interpretation of where the quote ends is possible.
And I think if you check most English translations the punctuations include a good bit, if not all of the verses after 12. Though I think there is some variation in placement of the quotations. I am probably alone in ending the quote with verse 12.
I just go with the change in person. You might also look at the tense of "No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man."
Jesus has not yet ascended?
But any interpretation is possible. It is not clear in the Greek. It is only that the English translations do not convey the alternatives. They pick one of the choices for you.
And I think if you check most English translations the punctuations include a good bit, if not all of the verses after 12. Though I think there is some variation in placement of the quotations. I am probably alone in ending the quote with verse 12.
I just go with the change in person. You might also look at the tense of "No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man."
Jesus has not yet ascended?
But any interpretation is possible. It is not clear in the Greek. It is only that the English translations do not convey the alternatives. They pick one of the choices for you.
