Rules and discussion

In line with the discussion going on elsewhere, this group has been set up to afford an opportunity for cooperative writing beyond that available in The Haunted Soda Group, (the eponymous story and The Thing in the Library). Initially, one story is proposed, with a theme and rules as outlined below.

For the record, and to avoid any intimation of favoritism, bias, ego or clannishness, note that:

…The group is open to anyone, and is not limited to invitation-only members.

…For the sake of anonymity, the creator of the group is using a nom de nonplume. “Bluepencil” will act as editor and will not post contributions to the story or stories, beyond setting a title and creating an opening line, but may, as necessary, insert editorial comments to keep things going smoothly, direct that a disruptive line be ignored, post chapter breaks, etc.

…I will assemble a cohesive version of what you write, making such editorial changes as are desirable to fix problems with punctuation, tense, accidental variations in name or place, deletion of offensive text, and omitting material which is so far afield as to inhibit contributions from others or to so divert the story as to destroy its sense. Story participants will not post to that cohesive-story-topic. Separate topics will be maintained for discussion of ideas and for the progress of the story.

…Before beginning a story, its theme, rules of engagement, general plot ideas and goal will be agreed upon by the initial participants. All participants will be expected to follow these aspects of the story.

For the first story:

The proposed rules are: postings must not exceed ten words; no two postings from the same contributor without an intervening post or the passage of 24 hours; no profanity or pornographic/scatological terms. Additional rules can be added by mutual agreement.

The proposed title is “Wolf“. This has been chosen to allow maximum latitude for your creativity: Wolf could be a character’s surname, nickname or description. Wolf can be a person, animal, action or the characteristic of a character. Once established, that will apply throughout the story. The story can be any of the following (vote on this):

(1)…A romance
(2)…Thriller
(3)…Anthropomorphic tale (akin to Watership Down)
(4)…Children’s story (non-anthropomorphic)
(5)…YA story
(6)…Satire, political or otherwise
(7)…Sci-fi, fantasy
(8)…Gothic, horror
(9)…Other - you decide collectively

Given the demonstrated proclivities of the anticipated group of participants, humor and puns will be expected, as will occasional obscure literary references, but blatant competitiveness in these matters will be discouraged. It is acknowledged that there is a certain amount of fun in throwing a curve to other participants with sudden deviations in the story, but do try to be cooperative. Please flaunt egos elsewhere.

Once the foregoing have been agreed upon and the story begins, all participants are duty-bound to proceed accordingly - or start their own story.

If you are interested in participating in this, you may post your preferences here to help determine how we proceed . Between now and Thursday, February 1, the groundwork will be laid. I will post the opening line for the story on that date.

I vote for (4). I also propose two rules, subject to group agreement, that come from my experience in The Haunted Soda Group:

a) Respect the previous entry's/entries' punctuation. If an entry ends in a period, start a new sentence. If the previous entry does not end with a comma or other form of punctuation, don't insert it at the beginning of your entry.

b) Respect previous entries as finished. If an entry ends in car, do not begin the next post with -otid, or such. It's just bad form.

I vote for (9), as I would like something like a mixture of humour, mystery, and romance (no idea if that is considered possible).
I totally agree with ExVivre on points a) and b).

I would like to try an international thriller involving relics . . .

Question: Can an entry be less than 10 words?

Question: Would expletives uttered by the character--be considered "offensive text?"

Localpeanut, It was my intention that a post could be less than, but not more than 10 words. I can imagine someone might exhaust a thought in few words, and be so overwhelmed they just have to stop right there.

And yes, putting expletives in the mouth of a character still breaks a no-profanity rule. We have an open audience here.

Edited to add second thoughts:

A device like "!?$*/-#" would be acceptable in character's speech, but let's avoid the obvious "f__k", "sh___", etc. Otherwise the Nixonian substitute will be used: (expletive deleted)

ExVivre's objections to the connectives at The Haunted Soda may be almost moot here with a longer line available. With only five words available, it sometimes was just not very likely that someone could add words to a previously complete, but unpunctuated clause. When you take into account that much of the fun over there was to make radical shifts in the developing story line, I found the pick-up punctuation unobjectionable as just a necessary device. And as for "car -otid" being bad form , I gave the author of that shift kudos for cleverness (which, it seems, was all most people wanted in the first place).

As for here, I'd like to see a satire romance, with or without any mystery, so I guess I'd go along with aluvalibri.

localpeanut, what kind of relics do you have in mind - not old folks, I hope. :-)

localpeanut, what kind of relics do you have in mind - not old folks, I hope. :-)

Well, maybe dead old folks. :-)

Things you would find in ELizabeth Peters or Brother Cadfael novels like mummies, canopic jars, a holy kneecap, Jesus' diapers, Buddha's sandals, the immortal carp of Ur . . .

I'm torn between political satire and gothic/horror, which thought gives me a vision of a womanizing werewolf running for office....

We could go for a story with some suspense which could then incorporate adventure, relics, and even a bit of romance.

Several times in the original story I've deliberately left it for the next poster to decide if the sentence was finished or not. But with more words to play with that's less likely to happen.

A sudden curveball is only OK if it can be made to fit by the next poster. So don't throw in sudden curves unless you know how to continue in a way that will eventually make sense.

All of you guys make a lot of sense to me, I must say. Whatever we choose, PLEASE let's keep the satyrical part in it!!

#9> We could go for a story with some suspense which could then incorporate adventure, relics, and even a bit of romance.

Wouldn't this much mix be likely to result in chaos? We might be better off choosing one genre in, say, a satirical style.

Well, I kind of had Indiana Jones in mind. But whatever everyone else wants is OK by me.

Please explain to me what a "satirical style" is . . . because I don't think I'm clever enough to maintain something like that!

Well, Indiana Jones is the the adventure genre, but has a satirical style. Or, at an extreme, you could say Haunted Soda is satirical, but nobody can figure out its genre. Anyway, no one of us has to maintain anything alone. That's the advantage of a co-op.

Sort of a tongue-in-cheek storyline? Yes, I think I could handle that without embarrassing myself.

As long as we don't take ourselves too seriously . . . I must confess some posters intimidate me with their styles and so I never post after their entries. I feel like a dime following a twenty-dollar bill.

localpeanut, I could not agree with you more!

This is rather outside everything that's been suggested, but would anyone be interested in us writing a pseudo-Shakesperean play?

We now have fourteen members, and one hopes they will all jump in at this early stage to help determine the basic form of the story. Unless you reach a consensus beforehand, I anticipate calling for a vote on that on Sunday night (tomorrow).

Before starting the writing, to avoid falling into chaos, you should also have a precis in hand as a rudimentary guide to elements of the story. By that I mean a one-paragraph outline like the following (since the character has been mentioned here, I chose the publisher's precis for an Indiana Jones book with diverse elements -but this is not to influence you toward that genre it is only to show what kind of statement will be useful:

England, 1930. It begins when a gang of hooded thugs breaks into the secluded home of a modern-day witch deep in the mysterious New Forest. Stolen is a map that will lead Indiana Jones and fiery fellow archaeologist Gale Parker to an incredible discovery. Somewhere in the world is hidden an enormous hoard of gold, including ancient coins from the time of Christ. . .coins meant to spread Christianity. With the aid of a young mistress of Wicca, the age-old religion of white witchcraft, Indy and Gale risk their lives on a round-the-world quest for the long-lost treasure. Racing them to find it is a cunning and ruthless criminal mastermind who has set his sights on world domination. But Indy and Gale have formidable weapons: the powers of Wicca, the sword of the legendary Merlin, and Indy's own adventurous brand of magic. ..(Indiana Jones and the White Witch - Bantom - precis courtesy of Amazon.com)

As you prepare to reach a decision on form, you might think of elements you’d like to see included in such a precis. You may want to designate one person to write the precis, or several may prepare drafts and choose one, or you might prefer to have your editor assign one of the various elements to each of you, thus giving several of you a piece of the pie.

This probably requires a lot of discussion, but needs to be in hand by Thursday, unless you would prefer to delay the start.

(edited to credit source of borrowed text)

>17 The_Other_Reader:

I was actually thinking something along those lines...

A story using non-sequential lines from Shakespeare's works. Granted, that could be pretty difficult and might be a separate endeavor altogether.

Instead, how about a satire of a Shakespearean play in the romance genre? (There seems to be a leaning towards romance.)

I like the idea of hunting for some sort of treasure/clue thing...gives everyone a common point to go back to as the story develops, but I don't have any hard and fast opinions.

Only half our members have been heard from thus far, so it seems a bit unnecessary to call for a formal vote tonight. Other than the Shakespearean idea, which might best be used as a later effort when the group is more practiced at working together, there seems to be a majority favoring something akin to "Indiana Jones".

Unless there is contrary input from other members in the next day, let us rally 'round that flag and address the elements of the story.

Just joined up today (I can only connect on the weekdays for the most part). I agree with hailelib's genre offering. An adventure usually leads to romance anyways (including Indiana Jones).

As far as punctuation rules, I think we should respect punctuation that has bee placed by the previous poster, but have the freedom to begin a post with a period or comma if it works logically.

I second bookishbunny's comments on punctuation. Sometimes, you just really need to be able to add that comma or period.

I agree with 22/23 on punctuation, and the genre ideas (Indy Jones type) work for me too ... I do like the idea of a faux Shakespearian spin-off if someone wants to start that too!

I’ve worked up a proposed digest for a story. If you want to suggest changes, please feel free, or do a different one for an alternative.

Hindzeit, Bavaria, 2020. The little village of Hindzeit would hardly exist but for the generosity of the new Baron renovating the old castle on the hill. Retired Swiss banking billionaire Hans Wolf, 42, bought the castle and the title, just because he could. The Baron is very, very rich, and wants for nothing, except the love of the petite American adventuress, Delaware Smith. Her beauty matches Wolf’s wealth for excess. But she’s not impressed by wealth; she wants excitement. Now, Wolf thinks he may be able to attract her. Wolf collects relics. What he wants, he gets, despite the nasty maneuvers of his vicious rival, Vic Ryvall. While reading very, very old books, of which the castle has plenty, Wolf learns of a cache of ancient stuff, including David’s slingshot and the hammer that drove the nails on the True Cross. They were left buried by a Crusader who never made it home. Wolf and Delaware set off on a quest for the goodies, armed with guile, gazillions in gelt, a brand new Gulfstream jet and the latest weapons in case a “gaboom” is needed now and then. They have the local Hindzeit wizard on call, too, if all else fails. (The guy is a time-travel genius!) Little do they know, however, that Ryvall has conscripted the Baron’s Bavarian butler as a spy! Watch your step, it’s dicey out there.

Not to mock. That looks like good grist for the group to grind. :-)

There are real possibilities in artisan's proposal.

I like it!

So do I!

It'll be a bestseller - how will we arrange booksignings?

In different cities, according to where we all are (that will be an excellent excuse to travel)!!

In the absence of further comment or proposals, and it being Thursday in the residences of some of our members ... (gotcha) ... we have begun! See the writing topic.

The story has been going very smoothly so far, but you may be bringing in too many artifacts too soon. It seems to me, as a reader, that your "quest" is going to begin and end in the castle's own garden. I doubt that is what you intended. I'd say you are running ahead of the precis quite a bit.

Quite a difference a few days make. I think you've been ill-served by not having any discussion either before or after the significant turns you've allowed the story to take.

Most important, I suppose is the destruction of your hero. Going along with some cute, inconsistent postings and he is reduced to a narcissistic, egotistical jerk. This appears to be irredeemable.

In the expedition to come (?), Delaware Smith will apparently have to take the lead, while Wolf is relegated to the role of second banana, a tag-along who just pays the bills. Women's rights to the fore, of course, makes that a good twist, but how you are going to add any romance ingredient for this disparate couple, I don't know.

>>but how you are going to add any romance ingredient for this disparate couple, I don't know.

Yes, he may need to be humbled and then to emerge a sadder but wiser and better man.

But for now, it's fun to let our 'hero' be some wealthy, colorful playboy. Even the synopsis set it up that way. IMHO, I think it's been very true to the blueprint thus far.

>>The egotistical jerk always gets the girl.

Now that I think on it, I have two sons each with multiple wives (serially), and two sons-in-law who bear this out. I dare not look in a mirror.

As for the rest, I say "Go for it. Humbled, sadder, wiser, better." The surprising move of self-sacrifice probably should not be fatal. Then again...

The latest postings reveal that the penultimate sentence of the precis has not not been heeded.
The Baron's butler is in Ryvall's employ as a spy, not "mildly loyal" to Wolf. Why else would a Bavarian butler on vacation be lunching with a rich American collector/designer? Can this be edited, please?

Give hailelib and rebeccanyc a chance to review their entries. If they see the inconsistency, they can edit their entries. One can take the position that this is the first contact Ryvall has made with the butler, and proceed to show the solicitation of his disloyalty.

I was assuming that it was the substitute butler that was the spy but that the 'real' butler was being courted by Ryvall. I see him as being something of a double agent in the end. So, do I need to change my entry? Or not?

Like halielib, I originally assumed the substitute butler was the spy, but when I saw the "real" butler was lunching with Ryvall and was "mildly loyal," I decided that Ryvall had sent in the substitute as a spy and now was trying to get info from the "real" butler since he (the "real" butler) would obviously know more about what Wolf is up to. If this isn't in line with what should/could happen, I will change my entries -- I guess then halielib would also have to delete the "mildly loyal" part since I based my entries on that. But I like her double agent idea -- the more confusing this gets, the better!

I also saw the sub-butler as a spy, and the real butler, while vacationing in Paris, being 'courted' by Ryvall. Perhaps instead of 'mildly loyal', 'imperfectly discrete' (or something like that) would be a better description.

Interesting take. I didn't see it that way. I saw the substitute being treated as a non-starter ("Todd" not being a Bavarian, as required by the precis) and the "vacation" being an excuse for the spy to meet with the spy-master. It just seems to me that Ryvall would want the connection to a longer-term resident of the castle than a two-week temp. If, however, this is treated as a first solicitation, what we now have in place will work - no editing needed.

My latest, ending "before the lunch ended", intended to allow the opportunity for the transfer of cash for the infamy, with the full-time butler now prepared to be "mildly loyal" to two masters. (Opportunity for back-stabbing both in the long run?)

If I said something like "wasn't too disloyal" ?

haileb, in light of the discussion, subsequent writing and a reading in contest as I assembled the latest "coherent" posting, I do not think any emendation is required. It appears to heve worked itself out. The discussion definitely helped. If any of you later conclude that a change anywhere will clarify anything, I can always edit text in the coherent version.

rebeccanyc - your #127 doesn't continue bookishbunny's #126.

Thanks! We seem to have posted at essentially the same time: hers appeared while I was working on mine but before it appeared. I've deleted it -- sorry for the time gap since you alerted me and now -- real life intervened.

PS As an obsessive editor, I wonder whether bookishbunny means "complimented" or "complemented."

I don't know what I meant. While you're at it, can you look at my last post, too? Is that correct? Did I pull that off? (I can be so bad at this.)

Looks good (and sounds yummy) to me.

Complimented -- praised someone or something
Complemented -- accompanied something well

Aha! It's the latter. If wine paid me a compliment, I'd be horrified. I'd still drink it, but I would hesitate first. I'll go edit the post.

EDIT: Oh, my faulty memory! Upon re-reading the post, I see the veggies "complemented" the meat, while the wine was merely "paired" with it. Well, my rule about drinking talking wine still stands.

One presumes you would gladly drink complimentary wine, and with a good meal, eat the complementary veggies.

I'd like to point out an inaccuracy in #141, which reads:

"the property. It's Tibetan - fifth century. I have no idea"

... in reference to an 18ft-tall Buddha statue on the grounds.

Buddhism was not introduced into Tibet until 641ce, so the earliest possible Tibetan Buddha statue would be "seventh century" for a major piece like this ... and even then a surviving large sculpture would likely date to sometime after the assassination of Langdarma (a Tibetan king who attempted to eradicate Buddhism in favor of the native Bon religion) in 842ce, making "ninth century" a more realistic date.

Of course, this could be something that Delaware knows and realizes that Wolf is "blowing smoke" to hide something.

Sorry, I winged it. I'll go edit.

I rather regret the correction made in the date of the statue. There’s an opportunity inherent in the mis-dating. Think on this:

The Baron is gullible. He collects relics which are by their nature almost always fakes. He can be shown to be rich, but not knowledgeable. He can believe the statue is earlier than it is. Delaware has been assigned to an (unexplained as yet) task by The Antiquities Council of Bangkok. Delaware can be shown to be very knowledgeable, and can educate Wolf into the true date of the Tibetan Buddhist statue, using the history presented here in #53 by BTRIPP .

This will enhance her eventual role in the forthcoming quest. We already suspect she's the brains of the outfit, right?

#56

Hmmm....

Since the correction has already been made, I suggest we walk that dog with another leash (or relic). I like the idea, artisan.

Yes, I like the idea too -- in the back of my mind there's the idea that maybe the Thailand Antiquities Council is a front for something (Ryvall?) and sent Delaware off on this expedition for its own reasons but, in the course of the adventure, she (they?) realize there's more to this than meets the eye . . .

The fact that the correction has been made does not prohibit the change back again. I can also change the consolidated text. The only questions you need to address are whether you have written new text which prevents you taking the suggested tack, and whether or not you want to do so.

Blah, blah blah.....

Edited to say: Never mind! Oopsie post.

Okay, so while Wolf is admiring Delaware's physiogamy, I really want to have him wonder if she has a hidden tunnel, but I'm afraid that will go against the anti-obscenity rule.

I hope he wouldn't wonder about that. He'd be even dimmer than he appears to be.

Is it barely possible that bookishbunny's infamous erotica collection is symptomatic of something deeply tunnelled into her psyche?

::blush:: :)

Bluepencil, my fault in #171. I forgot to add an end-quotation mark at the beginning and start a new paragraph. I've now done so.

artisan and I appear to be cross-posting and by the time I edit mine...

I'm going to leave it for now and check back later to see if I need to change again.

I'm confused. Is it Delaware saying that tunnel is lighted? If so, we need fresh quotation marks. If it's Wolf, are we to suppose he has been to the barn and back, sans companion, in the space of a nanosecond?

hailelib and I re-edited ourselves into a jam. My posting and their original coincided. I edited to fit, and simultaneously, they undid their major change so that mine no longer followed.

The sense was that Delaware rejected the idea of needing him to go get the spelunker, and insisted she was going ahead into the tiunnel, and clearly poninted out that the tunnel did not require anything special - it's paved and lighted!

I wish hailelib would go back to that sense. I think we do not need another diversion and another character, at this point.

I was kind of excited about the introduction of a new man (especially a spelunker who works in the stables). Perhaps a love-triangle would shake Wolf and we can get more development of his character.

You can't have a love triangle without love. We aiun't got enny! Innit?

AND - we haven't even gone back from our drive to eat the dinner that's awaiting!

I was using the term 'love' loosely. Through internal monologue, we have already established a very strong attraction for Delaware that has lead Wolf into a position of vulnerability.

The guy's obviously vulnerable, clueless, inept and otherwise unlovable. Why complicate things for the poor guy this soon? Let him get to first base before the double-play.

Either way, you may still want to edit your punctuation so that all are clear that Delaware is the one heading into the tunnel without further delay.

Let's give hailelib a chance to read #68 above, and to decide whether to go back to their pre-edit language. If they leave things as they are, I'll re-edit mine to clarify. (That might run a couple of words overlength, however.)

I just went ahead and made the change to my line. It accomplishes the point without hailelib making any further change. And I did it in ten words, too.

Sorry for the problem the simultaneous posting caused. I was away from the computer much longer than I meant to be.

(Actually only half of hailelib is participating - Tricia)

Ah, they is she.

Does Delaware see the trapdoor because she went into the tunnel while speaking or can she see it from the entrance?

Not a critcism. Just asking.

She/they must have entered - she knows it's both lighted and paved. Until #181 and bookishbunny's 'emanated', I pictured them inside a hollow statue, at the beginning of a tunnel. (Light coming into the head through the eyes. I was heading toward an observation post inside the head which watched...whatever. So, OK, they were outside.

::rewinds::

She/they must have entered.......

Take is away, Mr. DeMille...

How about a new continuation thread soon? If we come to a good point in the story for a new chapter? My dial-up connection is starting to take a long time to load.

I think a new chapter could start at the end of 186, so that hailelib's 187 and my 188 could be at the beginning of a continuation thread. Or maybe something could happen in the next couple of entries that would create even more of a cliff-hanger.

I used #190 for a transition point, ended the chapter, and set up the new one.

If you want #190 to be a cliff-hanger, we've still got the full-time butler to get back from Paris, and we've got Ryvall at an orchid show in London. Either of these could occupy us for a while and leave the lucky pair alone in the statue.

I think that tomorrow I should read all of Chapter One before doing anything in Chapter Two. I had just about forgotten about the butler and even Ryvall's current activities.

I am even now preparing a full, coherent copy of Chapter One, edited for continuity so that you may all copy it to your computers and print it out if you wish. I only have to go through it to restore the italic tags, which were lost in the process of copy-pasting to my word-processor and back.

It should be posted (in a new one-message topic) within the next half-hour.

I think it reads remarkably well, and hangs together nicely for all the jiggery-pokery involved. You can take pride in it.

I think hailelib has a good idea. Perhaps if we all read Chapter One before posting in Chapter Two, we'll also get some ideas for things we think we'd like to see resolved at some later point.

#85 You can take pride in it.

And we should all thank Bluepencil for organizing and coordinating this, and for attempting to keep we unruly writers in some sort of line.

I've posted the first line in Chapter Two. My thought is that there had to be reasons why an outfit in Bangkok (orchid-growing capital that it is) would be interested in warning Wolf about Ryvall's intentions. I propose that Ryvall, an avid collector of orchids (as well as relics) have his own vicious rival in the orchid field, who can be the invisible mastermind orchestrating things. The goal could be two-fold: frustrate Ryvall on both fronts, orchids and relics, and pursue some "antiquities" interest of his own in the Buddah statue.

How say you all?

sounds interesting, artisan...

rebeccanyc, your tough old editor thanks you for the vote of appreciation, and in return will overlook your nominative/objective confusion.

This time.
:-p

Thanks, Bluepencil. I'd been proofreading an irritatingly bad newsletter all day and I must have been feeling rebellious!

I think #12 of chapter two sounds a bit off.

"the crowd. Not seeing his usual competitors, decided to delay"

I think that it could use a subject pronoun (competitors, he decided) or a conjunction with the last sentence (the crowd and, not seeing his usual competitors, decided to delay).

I could be wrong about this, and if I am, I apologize. I know this was probably 2 AM post, but I still think it could be modified a bit.

Point taken. #12 has been fixed with a semi-colon.

We have a much bigger problem, however. The site of the action is an orchid exhibition, not an auction. Think trade show - with exhibitors, in booths. Moreover, no-one delays an auctioneer, for any reason - especially to allow absent competition to arrive!

Unless this is changed, we seem to be at an impass.

You can delay an auctioneer -- by nefarious means. And that's how I read it. But I can change my post if so directed later today. (Beginning Saturday, I'll be away from my computer for a while.)

I think the simplest thing would be to leave "the auctioneer" out of it in #13 and change it to "his offer" -- that would allow the following posts to make sense, and I have added a post assuming a change like that might be made. But I echo hailelib that I will change my post if so directed.

artisan,

The semicolon in post #12 didn't take. I may be wrong, but I don't really see how that would help. I propose a relaxing of the rules for that post only, and allowing a 'he' to be added before 'decided'.

Any thoughts, artisan & Bluepencil?

I see that the semi-colon change didn't take (I may have switched topics before the system adjusted the record). I agree that "he" makes it clearer. I can meet the ten-word limit by changing "his usual competitors" to "any competition, he".

Changing the two words in #13 to "his offer" solves the auction problem nicely, and since everything after that fits and makes sense, I'll withdraw my opinion that we were at "impasse" (sorry about the mis-spelling).

Bluepencil, as always, has the last word on all of this.

BTW, hailelib, in any auction I've ever participated in (and there have been many), if you interfere with the normal, timely, functioning of an auction (nefariously or otherwise), you will be denied the opportunity to bid, or, more likely, be ejected. Yes, auctioneers have bouncers, too.

aluvalibri, I don't know where you expected that "luscious" to lead, but thank you, thank you for such a wonderful opportunity for Ryvall to show his mean streak and for me to remember some awesome retribution which took place at a concert when I was in college. (Not me - I was just a witness.)

artisan,

I love what you did with the lemon! Awesome!

I just loooove that word....;-)
(Besides, I felt we had to spice things up a bit)

Once again, your discussion has solved an incipient problem. I have made the agreed changes and posted the consolidation through message #18.

Re 97 - I vaguely had in mind removing the auctioneer from this mortal plane before he (or she) reached the building where said auction was to take place. And having it appear to be someone other than Ryvall who did the removing. Anyway, we no longer have to figure out how to make something like that work due to the discussion and subsequent editing.

bookishbunny and aluvalibri, it looks as though you posted at the same time (#36 and 37) -- maybe you could figure out a way to edit?

You must really be on the ball, because I noticed it the minute I posted, then deleted it.

EDIT: Aha! I see it didn't take. NOW it should be deleted. If I can, I will use that awesome plot device down the road. I had an image of a huge, sturdy black orchid that could hold a small package. BRILLIANT!

rebeccanyc, you are so cruel! bookishbunny obviously wasn't finished at the orchid show, and you tore us away. I shut down the telephone call so she could get on with her BRILLIANT! (we'll be the judge of that, kiddo) plot device.

Well, my thinking was we could come back to it -- I loved bookishbunny's idea -- but if others think we should stay at the show, I'll delete my last entry. In fact, I think I'll do it anyway, since it seems to have deterred anyone else from posting.

Don't change a thing!!!

Orchids will obviously come back into the plot again. Let's save the giant Black Slipper Orchid for a that time.

But nobody else seemed to want to post after what I wrote . . . so I deleted it. I'll put it back and see if anyone is tempted this time.

OK - so we're back at Hindzeit.

Any ideas as to what's inside the statue?
And where is that tunnel going to lead?

I like Todd's phone call!

Boat?? Are you actually abandoning the hollow statue and the tunnel?????

Yeah, how is the boat going to fit?!

If he suspects they've taken the boat, how can it be seen at the end of the pier?

Sorry, for some reason I thought they took a boat out on the lake and stopped to look at the Buddha, but now that I've reread Chapter 1 (again), I realize they took the car and my memory must be failing.

Thanks for pointing this out and I will now go and change my post.

Edited to say aluvalibri will have to change hers too once I change mine, so there will be a mismatch until she sees this.

I have an idea I'd really like see us use. It will take several cooperative posting to implement, however.

When the tutorial in this scene is finished, and our couple grasp the details, they can ask to have their time turned back an hour so they can still get to their dinner. (The scene can thus end the chapter.)

The idea is that the story can then continue -- without further reference -- one hour out-of-sync. We thus have a perfect plot device in our inventory to use when they inevitably get in really deep doo-doo. When the going becomes impossible, they can pull out the handy-dandy modified Blackberry, text-message the Wizard to undo their gratis hour and they will be instantly time-jumped out of the jaws of death. Neat?

BTRIPP and bookishbunny, the discussion engendered by Dr Dee's mirror has now started to impinge on the flow of postings in the writing thread, so I'm going to continue it here.

"note: The BM will not have sold or relinquished theirs by 2020, and a theft from that institution is beyond explanation here."

Note: actually, some of Dee's paraphernalia got nicked in 2004 (albeit from the Science Museum in London and not the B.M.), though it was soon recovered ... so there IS some basis on which one could spin out a scenario of it getting into Wolf's collection!

Note: Perhaps by sneaking it out in the Giant Black Slipper Orchid. :)

My comments: I allowed for the possibility that the BM might be robbed, but I think introducing something like that, which would require extensive explanation, was too difficult within the limitations of ten-word segments when we have no influence at all over how someone else might continue what we post. Past experience, when our ideas become impossible to implement because of a change of direction imposed by another, makes me believe that we must keep to simple exposition of simple action. In short, I concluded that "one cannot spin out a scenario" like that.

In this regard, I'd be perfectly happy for Wolf to be shown here as just a gullible collector who bought an "Aztec artifact" fake reproduction of Dee's mirror, as I would for there to have been a second genuine antique mirror which he sensibly acquired as an outstanding and knowledgeable collector. This, I guess, will be determined by the next poster.

Bookishbunny, the continuity police will get you: (1)Wolf hasn't been identified as an orchid collector, you gave that distinction to Ryvall, (2)the special orchid is being bought by the mysterious person in Bangkok, not by Wolf (3) the nature of the special orchid hasn't been defined, (4) something already in Wolf's collection couldn't have been sneaked out in an orchid which hasn't yet been sold, and (5) we were rather abruptly wrenched away from the orchid sequence, and don't seem about to return to it very soon -- (vid. my comments at the end of the second paragraph above)

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln......

Sorry. It was really meant as a joke to the other "Note" notes.

Really, I should just butt out of it altogether. There seems to be too much plot structure dictated by a few. The rest just seem to be contributing words to an outline.

Sorry, bookishbunny, I didn't realize you were joking. I apologize.

As for your thought on your participation, I think it is counter to the problem you identify. I, too, am disappointed that so few of our 20-plus members are participating. But I'm not sure what you mean by "too much plot structure dictated by a few". Do you think there has been an excess of different plot elements in a short space of time - (not allowing sufficient development of specific elements)? Or are you saying that too few people are dictating the course of events and not welcoming wider participation?

If the latter, your dropping out would certainly be counter-productive, since you have contributed major, innovative, elements of the story so far.

As for "The rest just seem to be contributing words to an outline", there appears to me to be a paucity of "the rest" contributing any words. That's a disappointment.

I don't recognize the outline to which you refer. In fact, I have come to the opinion that we did so well with the first chapter because we had an outline in the form of the precis, and are now floundering because we have run out of the detail of the precis and have no outline.

I have tried a couple of times to get some discussion going here which might lead to cooperative decisions as to directions to go, and plot devices to develop, but that hasn't been successful. If you have any idea how we should proceed and overcome your objections, please post it here.

After looking at the notes I think we do need to have some discussion before proceeding. Maybe each chapter should begin with a discussion that gives us a synopsis of the plot and then we flesh it out in the actual posts. Or is that too tight a structure?

I'd go for that. Recognizing the limitations of ten-word posts, without some relatively tight structure, we risk falling into the chaos of "the haunted soda".

I would like to comment and offer a few suggestions.

If one compares the first and second chapters, it is apparent that some steam has gone out of the process. Plot elements are being rushed and not being developed as well, although the strictures on the process are not conducive to much lengthy plotting.

There are ways to overcome those strictures. Hailelib's suggestion is an excellent one. In addition to that, there is no reason you cannot revisit what has been posted, adding exposition where you agree you want to develop a plot device farther, even to revising what has been posted. You could insert a new series of posts, move a series to another location, even make word-changes. All of this cooperatively, of course. The ten-word stricture and limitation on posting were decreed to avoid chaos. You can work around them.

I realize that "other" story-writing groups are set up more as games (no insult intended) than cooperative authoring devices, but that was not my intention here. I hoped you would come through the process with a coherent, readable, sensible (if somewhat weird) genuine story.

Chapter one was an excellent effort in that regard. Chapter two was good, but weaker. If you can determine what it is that is making the difference - as each of you sees it - and what, perhaps will bring in the rest of the group's members, then we can propose specific revisions of the process.

I am one of the people who has tried to keep up posting, but am finding it difficult at times because the last post, whatever it is, doesn't stir my imagination. This may be an inevitable result of many people working on a story, but it seems to have increased over time.

Why is this? Sometimes it's because the plot is veering off in a direction that doesn't seem "right" to me and until I see where it's going I don't feel I can contribute. Sometimes maybe I'm just not feeling creative.

I like haielib's suggestion but would like the plot synopsis to be really bare bones: maybe just a list of plot elements that could be developed in the chapter.

We already have a lot of plot elements: Delaware's search (and how the Thais fit into that), Wolf's interest in Delaware, Ryvall and his orchid hunting, Ryvall's interest in Wolf, the role of Todd and the real butler, etc. If we try to deal with them all in each chapter, it will make the chapters too thin.

I agree with Bluepencil about Chapter 2. For example, if the time travel idea is really to be significant, and if Todd is really as devious as he seems, I think he would have to have some reaction to Wolf and Delaware's return for dinner, since he already told the real butler he would send somebody out to look for them. And then I would want to turn to another segment of the plot, instead of sticking with Wolf and Delaware after the time travel segment. With all the plot elements, we need to move around between them, after developing each for a while.

To be specific, if it were up to me, I would move the Wizard section out of Chapter 2; after the conversation between Todd and the butler in Paris, I would return to showing some other aspects of Ryvall's maneuvering.

Then I would start Chapter 3 with Wolf and Delaware meeting the Wizard, but I think there could be a lot more on the Wizard and how Wolf knows him and what he's done for Wolf in the past, and how he got into the tunnel if even Wolf didn't know about it, and something about the tunnel itself, etc. Then W&D could even see that Todd has sent someone to look for them and have the Wizard whisk them back in time, and we could develop Todd's reaction to their reappearance, etc.

But these are just my ideas and I realize this is a cooperative venture (and my first one, at that). I am just trying to respond to Bluepencil's request that we try to figure out what is making the difference, from my point of view. If agreeing on chapter topics would help, I'm all for it, as long as the list allows us to develop the ideas in as creative a way as possible.

Edited to correct bizarre typo.

I'm going to hold off on a reply to most of rebecca's points to let some others have their say, but there's one point which that needs explanation:

if the time travel idea is really to be significant, and if Todd is really as devious as he seems, I think he would have to have some reaction to Wolf and Delaware's return for dinner, since he already told the real butler he would send somebody out to look for them.

As to the inclusion of this device and its significance, I proposed it a week ago (#116 above) and was disappointed to get no discussion whatsoever, so, without objection, proceeded.

As to Todd's non-reaction - there couldn't be any, because the couple arrives before dinner. Things are now a hour out-of-sync This affects anything which appears to have happened during the hour, but not things before or after that..

The "call" was made when they were "missing dinner" (see #42-45 of "writing chapter two") and they no longer are. Ergo, the call hasn't happened (and won't, since they are no longer "missing"). We did, however, gain insight to the relationship between the butler and his substitute, the butler's opinion of Delaware, and knowledge there are "secrets" about the castle.

I did not have a chance to get it in before the end of the chapter, but this one-hour dislocation also explains why the Wizard was surprised by the couple's appearance in his lab: They left "before" they arrived.

The problem with time-travel, as well as its usefulness as a plot device, is that it's confusing to all concerned.

The number of plots we have in progress (or lying fallow) is becoming unmanageable. I think we'd benefit by a list of them, and making an effort to say, for each one, whether it ought to be forgotten, or how it ought to proceed, or at least where it should culminate. (Not too detailed, but goal-oriented)

We will probably find some of them unworthy of spending much more time on, while others warrant a lot of development. As rebecca suggested, hailelib's idea can be implemented by pre-determining and posting which sub-plots are to be developed in each chapter.

While it is expected to be part of the fun of this kind of activity, we've probably all been annoyed to find a nice idea of ours impossible to develop because someone abruptly changes gears on us. It's easy to form the opinion that they're being just too clever for our own good! A little forethought and discussion would go a long way toward ending that frustration.

I did feel that we moved out of the tunnel too quickly and needed to have more discussion about the wizard and his relation to Wolf.

And could they arrive for dinner just after Todd's call? So, he became curious about their activities but didn't search enough to uncover the exploration at the statue.

Any other ideas?

I like The_Other_Reader's idea of making a list of the plots/subplots: I think this would be a big help. I stress that my idea is just to list them, not to suggest how they might be developed -- that should be up to us as we individually post, not prescribed in advance.

And yes, that's true; they could arrive before Todd had a chance to send anyone out to look for them.

I'm sorry to have been unable to follow up for a couple of days, and will be fairly unavailable for the next few days, as well. I will work up a list of sub-plots which merit further development as soon as I get back.

However, I do not see the value in re-doing the return to the castle.

Nothing is gained if they return before Todd has a chance to send out lookers. We already know he was going to do that. Time travel wouldn't even be required for such a return.

Nothing is gained if the watchers actually go out. They find nothing (either because the couple are inside the statue, or because they return before the searchers report back) and we simply have a statement that they looked, and found nothing.

As it is, we have on the record everything to be learned from the telephone call. What you both seem disturbed about is that we do not have any record of any effect of the time travel on Todd. That's easily fixed without any disruption in what has already been posted.

I propose that Bluepencil edit the final message in Chapter Two by adding twenty words before ending the chapter:

As he served them, Todd felt a vague unease - there was something he meant to do, or did, or couldn't...

I also think we should scrap what's been written as the beginning of Chapter Three and start fresh when we have a list of sub-plots and we can decide which one(s) should be taken care of before starting anything else.

The reason I would redo the return to the castle is because I think the meeting with the wizard section needs more fleshing out (see my #123 above). I would even prefer to more the whole Wolf and Delaware/Wizard section out of Chapter 2 (as detailed in #123) and include more of the Ryvall subplot there.

BUT, these are all my opinions. I do not want to direct the flow of the story and so I would love to see what others think.

If others have tired of this story, what would re-spark your interest? Unless there are more people interested in participating, we will never find out what happens!

Chapter Two is short enough that we could expand on the Ryvall sub-plot without moving the time-travel bit out of Chapter Two. It ends the chapter as it is.

I agree that we ended the situation at the orchid show too soon, and it is probably not strong enough to re-introduce in a later position. We can simply insert the rest of the Ryvall/orchid sequence between messages #38 and #40, (see 'Writing Chapter Two') where rebeccanyc deleted a message.

I see the sense of the Ryvall/orchid sub-plot as shiowing:
(a) Ryvall has an enemy, just as he is Wolf's enemy.
(b) He's mean as dirt.
(c) His nastiness causes him to lose what is important to him (just as relics are important to Wolf)
(d) There is not necessarily any relationship between the mysterious man in Bangkok and Wolf - the enmities seem to be Bangkok/Ryvall and Ryvall/Wolf.
(e) The Bangkok man who buys the orchid may or may not be the same "Antiquities Council of Bangkok" who sent Delaware to warn Wolf about Ryvall.

That's what the sequence can resolve, and the purchase ought to be shown to go to the Thai.

It is my belief that we've spent too much time in introducing too many sub-plots which keep Wolf and Delaware from starting a quest. Perhaps "getting out of Dodge" would interest more posters.

I do like the idea of finishing the Ryvall/orchid sequence in Chapter 2. Revisiting it in a later chapter would be awkward and it does need a little more...

The intro to the wizard also needs 'more' and should, perhaps, include a reason for Smith and Wolf to 'get out of Dodge'.

Others? Your thoughts?

"Others? Your thoughts?"

Personally, I never was able to "connect" with either the "orchid sub-plot" or the "assorted butlers sub-plot", so I was happy when focus shifted back to Wolfs estate (although, I did rather find the "Wizard sub-plot" disconcerting ... I was rather hoping for some sort of archaeological pay-off from their investigating the tunnels under the Buddha statue).

Frankly, it seems to me that this has been "spewing sub-plots" the way The Haunted Soda was effervescing hallucinations at its most incoherent, which makes it daunting to try to fit in some 10-word "piece of the puzzle" if you've no confidence that a sentence later whatever you've tried in terms of "moving the story forward" has been stymied by yet another unexpected plot twist.

> 135

BTRIPP, aren't we trying, via this discussion, to sort out the threads and tie the various strands together, as well as work out an aim for the current chapter? Then we should be able to avoid too many twists to keep up with.

"Spewing sub-plots" is a good way of putting it. We have been posed with some sudden shifts, and I guess everyone is reluctant to balk any one of these and "shout down" or put off an intrusion before a specific sub-plot can reach a conclusion or satisfactory spot for a pause.

Under those circumstances, I think we've carried on reasonably well.

I was very disconcerted by the "Todd" name for a butler who had been identified in the precis as "Bavarian". We had to get the butler together with Ryvall somehow, so the vacation in Paris with the outrageous Todd substituting seems to have worked out. But, let's get the real butler back quickly, OK? (and give him a name)

As for the orchid plot, bookishbunny identified Ryvall as an orchid collector and we had to do something with that. The sequence, as artisan said, provided a lot of mileage, so if we wrap it up, we're ahead of the game. I can't imagine what we could do with Ryvall's profession as a Broadway stage set designer.

We also seem to have made something interesting out of the rather outrageous 18-foot Buddha in Bavaria!

As for the possibility for a new sub-plot of something archeological in the tunnel, I think the wish to get them "out of Dodge" rests on the fact that we've already specified that the "quest" is going to be in the Middle-East. That was based on the content of the ancient book - returning Crusaders' left-behinds.

As for the wizard, the precis says he's going to be an asset to the quest, and he was introduced as an asset used by Wolf while renovating the castle (going back to see original construction and going forward to see how new materials hold up). There will probably be an opportunity for more information about him when he comes back for some role in the quest, but I'd have no objection to inserting a passage back in Chapter Two to amplify his involvement or background, if others feel that would help.

I mainly want to see some development of existing elements before throwing too much new into the pot. Maybe it's time to go back and read the whole story again and then have a good think!

It's been a week since the last posting in this discussion, which raises two questions:

Shall I shut down the story for lack of interest?

If the answer is "No", shall I amend the end if Chapter Two as Artisan suggested nearly two weeks ago (msg 128)?

I would like to continue, but only if enough (how many?) other people want to also. (I've been waiting for others to express opinions before posting again.)

If everyone else agrees to go back to the end of Chapter 2 as Artisan suggested (#128), I would go along with it, but I still feel what I detailed in #123 about expanding Chap 2 to include more of the Ryvall subplot and starting Chap 3 with meeting the Wizard and expand on what Wolf and the Wizard have done in the past.

Agree with #140 as far as continuing..

I've been absent for reasons other than the actual story and, if enough people can agree on direction, would like it to continue. However my participation will still be sporatic for a while.

Edited to say: I think we are stalled partly because there isn't a clear majority for any of the ideas. If Bluepencil amends the story in a way that makes sense, and if posters will present new directions here for an up or down vote before putting them in the story, we can probably move forward, however slowly.

I will add to the end of Chapter Two the lines proposed in message 128.

While the interested group seems rather small, there is a sense that some of you want to continue, but to have a great deal more control over how extensive sub-plots and scenes are developed. Past experience has show that depending on "up or down" voting is very hard to evaluate, since one does not know how to measure a "majority" in an un-defined group who may or may not be present at any given moment.

Those of you who have expressed the wish that certain sub-plots would have been given more development have not said how you would have liked them to go. Perhaps that is appropriate, but it does not lead to arriving at a consensus on details.

As a possible solution, I propose the following:

That I set up a new topic called "WOLF - Additions and Corrections". That anyone who has a specific wish to extend or revise text be allowed to propose up to, say, 100 words to (a) insert at a designated place in the existing text, or, (b) to replace specific text (quoted). The new text is to be posted in full, exactly as you want it to appear.

(This makes it not too difficult for me to edit the previously posted consolidated versions. You'll have to be quite specific as to where changes are to be made. )

Further, that after a specified number of days for objection or comment to be posted, (either here or in the new topic's space) the proposed change will be made,

We need to agree on the number of words to be allowed, and the number of days to wait for objections or to request changes, etc.

Although there has been less discussion of my questions than I had expected, reviewing past discussion gives me hope that an opportunity to give your ideas greater latitude will revive the effort. If it doesn't, I will reluctantly conclude that this kind of cooperative writing project is not sustainable on LT, and that only chaotic hallucination is . :-)

I would like two or three days for comments, objections, etc. (for personal reasons I haven't been able to come to LT some days of late.)

Fifty to one hundred words sounds good. Other opinions?

I agree with hailelib that several days should be allowed -- I too have times when I can't visit LT and/or spend much time here.

And 50-100 words sounds good too.

As one of the people who proposed further development of subplots without saying how I thought they should be developed, I can explain that I didn't because I thought the spirit of the project was to let us have a group method of writing and seeing where the plot/subplot goes. I certainly have my own ideas, but I didn't want to impose them on the group.

I understand your concerns, but it seems to me that when one of you views the progress of a certain sequence of posts after the fact and finds it less than satisfying, you will be able to propose alternative text or a remedial continuation of what has been written. That seems to me to be not imposing, just proposing.

When I suggested a "comment" period, I should have said that the period would be equally available for someone to offer competing text. (That ought to stimulate discussion!)

I had anticipated allowing at least a week for consideration of whatever is suggested. Remember that regular posting of the continuing text would be on-going during this time, so it would not be a matter of stalling the story for a "re-do".

Can we hear from some of our other members, please?

If we are going to allow longer posts for the special purpose of revising what's been written, I don't see the necessity for limiting to 50 or 100 words. I know we want to avoid things like that first "sentence" of The Thing in the Library, but as long as we are going to allow comments and objections, why not let the post be as long as the proposer thinks it should be, and then we can weigh in on shortening the proposed text if we want to limit it. If anyone gets out of hand, we can just shout them down.

Since several of us are rather intermittent now, a week seems an appropriate comment period to me.

Are we stuck or just busy?

Hello. I'm just visiting from The Thing in the Library to see how you're getting on :-) There are some nice things here.

a coherent, readable, sensible (if somewhat weird) genuine story

Well, I'm hugely biased, but I think The Thing in the Library is retaining a certain amount of coherence - and I'm not sure of the difference between "cooperative authoring device" and "game".

I know we want to avoid things like that first "sentence" of The Thing in the Library

Ah well: I guess it's a good thing that not everyone is the same. But for me, that first sentence was an inspiration (as were the first few paragraphs of The Haunted Soda, before it lost its grip).

I am ... finding it difficult at times because the last post, whatever it is, doesn't stir my imagination. This may be an inevitable result of many people working on a story, but it seems to have increased over time. ... Sometimes it's because the plot is veering off in a direction that doesn't seem "right" to me and until I see where it's going I don't feel I can contribute.

I recognize this as a familiar feeling; I've often had to sit around for a day or two hoping that someone else will post something.

I .. would like the plot synopsis to be really bare bones: maybe just a list of plot elements

I've considered suggesting such a thing for The Thing in the Library, but so far we've managed to stagger on without one, possibly because you can get quite a lot of plot development in one long "sentence" if you're careful about not "spewing subplots". Having a summary of "the plot (and subplots) so far" was very useful though, and I would recommend it as a tool. Also a Dramatis Personae with some background comment on possible motivation.

Shall I shut down the story for lack of interest?

No: hang in there! (If The Thing in the Library runs out of steam, I am determined to see it wrapped it up properly, though it would take more than one sentence, so I would need at least one collaborator!)

Are we stuck or just busy?

Bit of both, perhaps? I'm sorry I can't help: not enough hours in the day to catch up on a plot this complex.

Good luck!

#147, I've been waiting to see if "enough" (how many?} others are interested.

I am back, with apologies, but will be here less frequently than heretofore. I'm involved in a house re-modeling that won't quit.

As for continuing, let's do. I think Bluepencil should implement the suggestion in #142, and that we allow almost unlimited (reasonably controlled by the integrity of conscience) "additions and corrections" with a week for review, comment and competitive proposals.

Mostly because it may have been the "stopper" for our momentum, I want to undo all of what we did with the opening of Chapter Three, and begin it anew, giving someone (anyone who feels the need to do so) the opportunity to begin a sequence which will wind up one of the "incomplete" sub-plots discussed above. However:

I feel strongly that "the tunnel" should not be further explored at this time, but should be left for a future need. I think there's nothing wrong with postponing the further development of nearly any plot device. A reader can have curiosity suspended, anticipating a resolution at a later point in the story, and if it never comes, hopefully there will be enough going on by the climax of things that the unresolved item won't matter.

Likewise, I want to keep the mysterious man in Bangkok just that - a mysterious man in Bangkok. Who knows when, or how, we may want to exploit him. He obviously has it out for Ryvall, and as "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", we just may find him very useful at some crisis point. That, of course, was the value of the "time-travel", as I pointed out earlier. We can "unwind" it when the couple are in the direst state.

That's enough for now. Can we at least have some more opinions on this business?

I have set up the "Additions and Corrections" topic. Have at it.

At the rate this "discussion" is proceding, I would suggest that you not wait idly for more opinion. If you have a wish to make changes or additions, do so. The "silent majority" might be brought out as a result.

I've been waiting until I'm home again (at least a week more) and can print out our story to date for study. But if others post corrections prior to that I'll read and maybe comment on them.

I have posted a suggested replacement for the Aztec artifact subplot to keep the plot of the competition with Ryvall on track.

My idea, depending on what the rest of you think, is that this could go in several directions: e.g., Todd could have been eavesdropping and could contact the regular butler in London (remember, they know about the book); Wolf and Delaware could set off for the bank in the morning with some misadventure perhaps befalling them; Ryvall or the orchid dealer or the mysterious person in Thailand could all be up to something -- in other words, my idea is to think up complications but have them tie in with the existing subplots and the main story line.

I await cheers, boos, changes, and discussion.

Well, the previous #6 - 11 was something of a story stopper but I see this as having the potential to get us moving again. I would like to stay with Wolf and Delaware for a while.

I like the idea of gettiing on with it. I've put up an alternative substitute for the same spot in Chapter Three. (By the way, not to be revealed until the appropriate time, because Wolf is a cautious Swiss, but I propose he's had the map secretly engraved inside the back of his watch.) Remember, he's Swiss.

Either 'solution' is OK by me.

Well, part of what I've felt is a problem with the way the story has been developing is that it "gets on with it" too fast. I was sort of interested in developing a little of the interaction that seems to have been happening between Wolf and Delaware: Wolf wanting more of a romantic (or at least sexual) relationship with Delaware and not entirely buying into the idea of the need for outwitting Ryvall immediately, and Delaware the reverse.

I also envision complications because Todd told the Paris butler about the map in the book in the bank, and I can imagine the butler telling Ryvall, and Ryvall setting something in motion at the bank and . . . and . . . It just seems to me this would add to the tension instead of just sending them right over to the Middle East.

But this is a group effort and let's see what others think.

rebeccanyc, I think you need to re-read the story so far. There's no basis for your theory: " Todd told the Paris butler about the map in the book in the bank, and I can imagine the butler telling Ryvall" etc..

To review, Ryvall knew there was a book at the castle (Delaware said this early in Chap One) No-one other than Delaware heard Wolf say it was in the bank. Todd may have overheard Delaware tell Wolf Ryvall is after a book, but nothing more. The butler (he needs a name) may have been aware that Wolf put a book in the bank, because the butler might have been around at the time.

However, that being said, I can see value in having a bit more time for something to develop between W and D. I'll revise the ending of my proposal to allow more leeway for it. See if the new wording will permit the interaction you want.

I'll admit to being a little wedded to the idea that a dedicated relic collector would not need to again refer to a book to remember a short list of relics, nor would he not have a hidden copy of the "rudimentary map" involved. (So, yes, the idea a Swiss might have the map engraved inside a watch appeals to me more than it should.) sheepish grin

So --- compromise?

From Chapter 1 (see: http://www.librarything.com/talktopic.php?topic=8253)

I see I was wrong about Todd telling the Paris butler, but the Paris butler does in fact know and did tell Ryvall about the book in the bank.

"Fortunately for Wolf, his butler was mildly loyal and didn't say anything Ryvall didn't already know until he let slip that a mysterious text was now in a bank vault and that this was the only time the Baron had been known to take such precautions."

I apologize - your reading was indeed careful enough. Mine wasn't.

Nevertheless, I still don't think it necessary that they go to the bank. I thought it created enough "opportunity" for (romantic?) development and enough vulnerrability to various and sundry dirty deeds for them if they need to wait for the butler's return and if he is to accompany them on whatever trip they take. (See my edited proposal)

Ball back in your court.

I kind of like waiting for the butler.

I am willing to go with waiting for the butler, but something will have to happen in the meantime. I realize I'm kind of harping on this, but I do think there's material for a juicy plot feature with Ryvall knowing about the book in the bank, and it seems a little too easy (to me) to have Wolf tell Delaware not to worry about the map, and introduce magical hocus-pocus.

Maybe W&D don't hurry to the bank, but Ryvall sends someone and it isn't there when they stop by to pick it up before flying to the Middle East???? Or the bank manager calls? Or Ryvall has some in with the bank manager? Or ?????

Is there anyone here but artisan, hailelib, and me (and, of course, bluepencil)?

We may be alone, and we may have to decide on this plot by ourselves. It seems to me that there is still plenty of juicy plot material with the butler being the pilot, and Ryvall's spy. Ryvall knew there was a book, and thought it was in the castle. The butler disabused him of that, telling him it was beyond his reach in the bank vault. So, Ryvall hired him to keep an eye on the couple and to tell him when they took off, and for where. Doesn't seem too much to now forget about the bank.

I won't get too sticky about this, but Wolf is the banker, and the book is in HIS bank. NOTHING goes missing from a Swiss bank vault, especially a private one, nor would Ryvall have to hire the butler if he had some bank employee in his pocket.

I'll cut the "magical hocus-pocus", if you wish. To me it's just not realistic that a fanatic collector would need to again refer to a book to remember what it said about a cache of relics, and where it is.

The "something will have to happen in the meantime" is absolutely why the wait for the butler is there. What do you want, a romantic interlude? Groping and rejection? She FINALLY takes a glass of wine? Invent away - it will be open to whatever "something" you want to start.

.

artisan, I would like to wait and see if other people are interested in continuing. The appeal of this project to me was that multiple people were contributing and no one or two people could direct where the plot went; it lost much of this appeal when the number of people adding to the story dwindled. If it ends up being just you and me (or even just one or two or so more), this would not interest me very much.

PS As for what happens in the "meantime," I was hoping PLOT not romance; hence my interest in something with the bank (or something else) involving the Ryvall rivalry.

I think you are right to be finished with the story if there is no more participation than just a couple of us. I feel the same way.

If you want to test the prospects for continuing, I'll drop the contention over the book in the bank, but since hailelib liked the idea of waiting for the butler (and I like the prospects for him being the pilot) let's post what you wrote, with the change I suggest in my AGAIN-REVISED amendment. Then, anyone can post the next ten words. If no-one else does so, we're done. (or, if either of us decides there aren't enough participants, we simply drop out.)

This will at least get us off this stopping-point.

I'll look forward to seeing if anyone snaps at the bait . . .

Well, I've been watching for a few weeks (just joined to post this message), but haven't posted because I'm not so into the storyline...also, if it's a co op then shouldn't everyone have editing power rather than one person?
I'd be happy to take part in something like this, but only if I'm a bit more interested in the story!
Good luck to you all, though!

I assume rebeccanyc's #166 constitutes agreement with artisan's #165, so will proceed to post the revised beginning of Chapter Three and make a suitable adjustment to the posting thread.

jenknox, read the first message in the thread "WOLF - write it here". That explains the intent here. To get into the story, read the 'Edited for reading and printing" versions of Chapter One and Chapter Two.

Thanks Bluepencil; I should have been more explicit.