Group Read (March): Guy Gavriel Kay

Join us in the month of March for a Guy Gavriel Kay group read! Choose any of his books and discuss here.

Thanks for starting this up, Mathgirl. I'll be back in March.

Just picked up A Song for Arbonne at a library sale for 25 cents (Canadian currency). I'm all set with my first GGK book for March!

I am a long time fan and have yet to read his newest. I'll be there.

And I plan on reading the Sarantium duology for my 11 in 11 - so I'll see you here in march!

I am also (re)reading the Sarantium duology and if I can get my hands on a paperback copy Under Heaven. Plus I might get nostalgic and make it a GGK Month and read some others!

also in for a GGK in March - under heaven most likely although been disappointed with both last light of the sun and ysabel so it may prompt me to do a re-read of one of my favourites - Sarantinium duology, Tigana or Lions of Al-Rassan...

I love GGK! I don't know if I'll get a copy of Under Heaven by then or do a re-read, but either way (or both ways) I am in!

I loved Under Heaven. I don't think you can go wrong with that one!

I'm in. I have The Last Light of the Sun around here somewhere, but I'm due for a reread of my favorite Kay, Tigana.

I just got Under Heaven for Christmas - I am so looking forward to reading it, but I will work hard to save it until March (there are plenty of other books to read).

I've never read Guy Gavriel Kay, but I have Tigana,which I've been meaning to get to for years. This will give me a good excuse to finally tackle it.

Just found this thread and am delighted to connect with some more GGK fans. I've read all except the poetry and will enjoy picking something for a re-read.

I'll be here! Haven't done the research on which book yet (I've never read anything by Guy Gavriel Kay), but I shall have decided come March. :)

I'm in! Still deciding on my selection (have never read anything by GGK), but looking forward to it!

*Bump*

March is approaching people! I'm guessing I'll read one or two more books before going into Sailing to Sarantium. How do we tag the threads for individual titles? "GGK March:" or wahat?

Sounds good to me. I guess two threads for The Sarantine Mosaic duology or is one good?

16: "GGK March: " for the threads sounds like a good idea!

When we did the Atwood group read last year, some of the subthreads didn't get much traffic, so I'd be inclined to have a single thread for a set of related books. Also, it'll be fine to discuss books here on the main thread if there are not enough readers to warrant a separate thread. I suggested a group read for the author rather than for a specific book because I thought it would be interesting to compare GGK's works.

I do not have a 11 in 11 category to get this into but I have a GGK book on my TBR list so I can as well join and kick it out of the way: Under Heaven

I'm in. I've never read any GGK, but I have Tigana which I'm excited to start.

Oooh, Tigana is the best one.

My favorite one is actually The Lions of Al-Rassan - had been for a long time. :)

The Lions of Al-Rassan gets my vote as favorite as well, though I have loved everything by him that I have read. I will be reading Ysabel for this author read, it's the only book of his other than Under Heaven that I haven't read yet. Will probably start it around the second week of March.

>23 DeltaQueen50:

I liked Ysabel a lot - it is different so do not expect anything close to what he usually writes but it is still a good one - even if it is in a different way. And yeah - I like all his books a lot as well.

Has anyone read Under Heaven yet? The hardcover is listed as a bargain book right now, and I wondered if anyone recommended it.

Tanglewood - I read it last year and I loved it!

But then GGK is one of my favourite authors:) So whatever I read for March will be a re-read.

I read Under Heaven last year and posted a review. After Last Light of the Sun, which I plan to re-read for this group read, and Ysabel, I thought UH was a sort of return to form for Kay. It reminded me of his earlier novels much more than those two did.

For those who have read several of GGK's books, which are your favorites? Like a couple of recent posters, I'd put Lions at the top of the list, although the epilog really aggravates me. Rough ranking, subject to change on a given day:

Lions
Tigana
Fionavar (yes, it's highly derivative, and has some annoying moments, but some very nice original touches)
Arbonne (initially I didn't think much of it, but it has grown on me)
Sarantium (would rank higher if I didn't find Crispin so hard to like)
Under Heaven
Ysabel
Last Light (don't remember it all that well, so I want to re-read it)

I have not read his volume of poetry.

I will be reading Under Heaven for this group read. It had good reviews and I have heard such great things about Kay in LT and other places that I want to try one of his books. This months read is a good time to get it done since I have had the book on my shelves for about six months.

I did the Atwood in April group read last year and that one was divided up by title. Some of the titles didn't get much traffic, so my inclination is to go with one thread unless there is a large enough group of people who are reading one title. The Fantasy February group broke up this year into those reading Leviathan and another one for Game of Thrones. There was descent traffic on both to make some good discussions, but Game of Thrones did better for discussing than did Leviathan. I think it was because Game was so lengthy and there was so much to talk about.

I like the idea of being able to compare his work and talk about that so would like to see if this thread could be that sort of forum. We could wait and see what happens after we all get started reading our Kay books and see. Or perhaps somebody could sort of do a rough estimate of what titles of Kay's people are selecting and if one has a preponderance then that group could be split off into its own thread. For right now I vote for staying together and see what happens.

Thanks Calm and Jim53! Under Heaven sounds like a good one to pick up.

18 I think that's a good idea. I felt pretty alone slogging through The robber bride during Atwood april last year. The only issue I guess is spoilers. Some serious post-flagging is required then, I gather.

18/30 Yep gets my vote.

My favourite is a toss up between Lions of Al-Rassan and the Lord of Emperors (although the latter has problems!) and I really disliked Last Light of the Sun and Ysabel.

So I am a bit worried about reading Under Heaven luckily I am rereading the Sarantium duology too. It is GGK month after all ;)

Based on the comments received so far, here are some guidelines we can follow.

We'll start off with all discussion of GGK books in this thread. We'll branch off and start a new thread only if discussion of one particular book or series gets very heavy and is overwhelming this thread. If this thread gets too long, I'll start a "part 2" thread.

Let's try to avoid plot spoilers in this thread. Instead, I'd love to see lots of discussion on subjects like: comparison of GGK's early work to later works, comparison of GGK's works to other authors' works, why you liked particular books better than others, first impressions of GGK if you're reading him for the first time. Basically, this read-along is about GGK rather than a particular book, so it does make sense to keep all discussion here, at least for now.

hoping to read under heaven and potentially also tigana which is my fave GGK - although lions of al-rassan and the Sarantium duology are also possible! - the issue for me is that I'm travelling a LOT with work in March so carring lots of books about may not fly....

>33 psutto:

That's why I bought Kindle :d

I liked the Sarantium duology least of all of his. It felt like he'd planned a trilogy and then gotten bored.

I'm planning to read The Last Light of the Sun which I haven't read yet, but may reread Tigana also/instead since it's been a few years since I last read it.

I started reading Under Heaven yesterday and couldn't put it down. Last summer The Sparrow hooked me right at the beginning. I had begun to wonder when that would happen again and then I got ahold of Game of Thrones. Now this one. Two great starters so close together! WOW! 65 pages into this novel and the story is beautiful and so sad. So much imagery and even though it is so centered around violence it seems so calm and contained. The Sparrow was so loaded with anger that it was impossible to put down but this one is evocative. Of what I can't yet say. I can't wait to get into the real meat of the story.

@35 I thought the Sarantium

*its not really a spoiler but..*

ending felt a bit tacked on but I loved the pacing of both books. Emperors has to be one the most gripping books I have ever read!

I'm going to read The Lions of Al-Rassan. This will be my first book by this author. Looking forward to it has the book was on my wish list for a while.

My first book by Guy Gavriel Kay was Tigana and loved it. I moved on to A Song for Arbonne, then Under Heaven. All of which were wonderful reads. For March, I will read The Lions of Al-Rassan. Hopefully, it will be as good as the others.

I have never read anything by GGK, but tonight I went to the Borders Store Closing Sale and got a copy of Tigana. Everyone here makes it sound so wonderful.
--BJ

It's March 1st! Time to get out those GGK books!

I'm making incredible slow progress with my reading at the moment, for different reasons. Will read something more thin and light after finishing The last wish before plunging into GGK soorstoppers. I expect to pick up Sailing to Sarantium this weekend.

I picked up Ysabel at the library today. Having rather mixed feelings as a lot of people list this one as their least favorite of his. I almost changed my order to Under Heaven but I decided to go ahead and try this one. (But I have a feeling that I will love Under Heaven when I go get to it.)

I enjoyed Ysabel and it was my most recent reread.

I have Under Heaven sitting here on the desk, if I could just find some time to read. Maybe Thursday and Friday nights will be quiet around here.

I have The Last Light of the Sun on by TBR, but I'm not into vikings at all. Has anybody read this? Can you please assure me that Kay works his magic even on smelly vikings?

I want to reread Tigana, but my copy has gone missing. I would be upset to lose this old, battered copy as I've had it for years and years.

I remember nothing about last light of the sun apart from the fact that I didn't like it! - not one of Mr. Kay's better books I'm afraid

am half way through lonesome dove and once I've finished that hopefully will start under heaven

>45 RidgewayGirl:

I liked it. But I generally like vikings :) It is different from most of his work but I think his magic is working.. albeit a bit differently

I read The Last Light of the Sun when it was first published. The only problem I have is that it is the only one of his books that I have read that I can't remember:) I've got it out of the local library for a re-read ... I hope he hasn't actually written a dud:)

#44 - Thanks Laura, I really don't think Guy Gavriel Kay can write a bad book. I've enjoyed everything of his that I have read.

I liked The Last Light of the Sun alot. It was my first Guy Gavriel Kay, and I also love viking stories. This one, although there are Vikings, is based on King Alfred and set primarily in a country very much like Britian. I admit I don't remember it totally, I think there were a couple of major storylines to follow.

45 Am Swedish, and officially Very Culturally Offended. Snort. ;-P

I have Ysabel on my TBR list, but decided that since I actually own Under Heaven decided to do it instead. If I recall the reviews correctly Ysabel is set in the Languadoc region of France and is based on the Cather Crusades. That particular episode in history is very interesting and surely can't be boring? Especially since the book is written by Kay.

Under Heaven is just a beautiful book. I am 100 pages into it and really admiring the way Kay has set the stage for the story. The descriptions of the countryside, and Tai's work during the mourning period is so evocative. I can't decide if it is spare or rich. It is spare in the fact that it makes you feel the loneliness and solitude of Tai's work site and rich in that you can really see the place in all its scenic richness. You can also feel the loneliness and the patience that Tai feels, but for me the tension of being caught between two opposing forces who both understand and respect his mission and the physical work he has done is just beautiful. I can't wait to get into the rest of this book.

#45 & #50

Vikings weren't the only smelly characters in history. I think that until we got hot water in quantity most everybody was smelly.

Chiming in again - I enjoyed The Last Light of the Sun partly because of what he did with the vikings. It is much more about "Britain" for most of the story and touches on a time when Christianity was alongside of and replacing the older beliefs. As usual, he handled that really well.

But I probably should admit that I have enjoyed every single book by Kay and I've read them all except Under Heaven and his poetry.

I'm looking forward to starting Under Heaven this weekend. Having not read anything by Kay, I should read my copy of Tigana, which has been patiently sitting on my shelves for *cough* a decade *cough*, but I can't help it Under Heaven is so shiny and new.

I've begun The Last Light of the Sun and I have read it before, back when it first came out. I had a newborn at the time (I still have him, but he has grown old(er) and (often) smelly, much like a viking) so while I remember that I've read it, the details are lost to exhaustion. I'm enjoying it--Kay can really bring a scene to life, can't he?

I'm still shocked that my copy of Tigana is missing! I'm exerting a great deal of willpower in not running out and buying a new copy.

I've started A Song for Arbonne, and liking it very much so far.

Kay does have a way of setting a scene. While reading the first part of Under Heaven I could just see the landscape and feel the haunting loneliness of the place. It is nice to know that this must be a talent of Kay's and not unique to this one book.

I randomly selected to titles of his, and placed requests from the library. The Last Light of the Sun and Ysabel. The latter is also based on that it is a title that starts with "Y" and I need it for a challenge I'm participating in.

Never heard of or read the author before, so it should be interesting.

Well I can lay all my fears about Ysabel to rest. I am seven chapters in and I am totally carried away with this story. Once again Guy Gavriel Kay has captivated me.

Joining the action, about a week late. Going on a business trip tomorrow, and will use the train ride to kickstart (or, well, -ish...) Sailing to Sarantium,

Haven't started yet (reading Austen for another group read) so I am not posting yet but "I'll be back" as someone used to say :)

I have started Under Heaven and after a bit of a awkward start it is really starting to grip me. I expect to meet the GGK love triangle any second :)

edited to fix bizarre spelling choice. I mean meat instead of meet (facepalm)

#62 yes, he does have a favorite geometrical shape, doesn't he?

Started LLotS last night. Read it when it was new but didn't remember it at all. He starts right off with references to his other books: his first viewpoint character is from Fezana (Lions). Since there is a khalif, this book takes place before the action of Lions. By chapter 4 we've also got a dog named Cafall being given by Brynn to Alun; does this mean one of them is an Arthur figure?

I have finished Ysabel and have posted my review. Far from my favorite Guy Gabriel Kay, but still a worthwhile read. He also links this book with his Finovar Tapestry by using some of the same characters in both works. I have now read all of his books except Under Heaven which I will probably save for a later date.

@64 you know I really didn't like the linking between Ysabel and the Finovar Tapestry, I like my fantasy seperate

I've finished Last Light of the Sun and while it wasn't the best of Kay's work, it was still well worth reading. It was a little funny how he had to pair everybody up at the end and give everyone a happy ending.

#64 and 65 Did you notice the last sentence?

In my e-mail signature I put a line about what book I am currently reading. This signature currently has Under Heaven listed as my current read. I sent an e-mail to a co-worker and she wrote back about the e-mail but at the end she said that she has read every book by Guy Gavriel Kay and she was so pleased that somebody else was reading his work. I e-mailed back and said how entranced I was by this book and mentioned that I was reading it for an LT group read. In the course of our several e-mail conversation about the author she said that Last Light of the Sun was her least favorite book. I told her about the comment here regarding smelly Vikings, and she said that about summed it up for her as well. Goes to show you that some opinions about books and authors have common thoughts. I think that I will avoid Last Light of the Sun and concentrate on some of his other books instead.

#67 - Jim, I had to go and re-read the last sentence, and it doesn't bring anything to mind. Am I missing something?

Last sentence of Ysabel:

"He gave her both his hands and let her help him rise."

***Oh wait a minute - do you mean that both Ridgeway Girl and I said that our books weren't the best of his works - but still worth the read. I get it now.

At first I thought you were telling me that there was something in the last sentence of the book that revealed a deeper meaning that I missed!

#69 You're giving me far too much credit for subtlety. I was just pointing out one more reference to Fionavar. The last sentence of The Darkest Road is "She gave him both her hands and let him help her rise." (I won't identify the characters in case someone is reading that for the first time, although I don't recall anyone mentioning that they were.) Kay calls these intertextual references "grace notes," although I sometimes tend to think in less complimentary terms.

There you go - I think you earned your subtlety credit! I would never have made that connection if you hadn't pointed it out!

Late to the party, I've now started my first Kay in three years or so. I'm enjoying Sailing to Sarantium about 80 pages in. I like how Kay uses polyphony and how well he handles a big cast, but am as always slightly disappointed in his gender balance. The guy (pun intended) has a clear ambition to cover many levels of society in the Sarantine Empire, and he writes good female characters. So it's a shame he always seems to settle for just one or two female leads among a score of blokes.

Picked up Ysabel from the library yesterday, so hope to start it this weekend or earlier next week. Will be my first Guy Gavriel Kay.

I've gotten through most of LLotS. I like the fact that there's a bit more of a fantasy element that he included in several other books, but I find the characters lacking. Aeldred and Ceinion's conversations about how a Christian can relate to the fairy world seem to be Kay's main concern here, but so far he hasn't really had characters do something significant as a result of that struggle.

We do get further clues to the coordinated timeline; apparently LLots takes place about 300 years after the events described in the Sarantium duology. No telling yet how many more years till the events of Lions; that, of course, would be harder to portray.

@74 "that, of course, would be harder to portray". Hehe. Perhaps a nåid with visionary powers? "I see a woman with a flask full of...is that urine?"

I am still reading Under Heaven and taking it slow by only reading before I go to sleep. However, I plan to really dig into this book this next week while I am on vacation. I do have to say that there has been very little "fantasy" in this book. I would class this as historical fiction rather than fantasy because the few incidents that have been "fantastical" could also be explained as religious belief. I did a brief skimming of Tang Dynasty Chinese history (just enough to have a time frame) and so far the events of the book are right in line with events of the establishment of the Tang Dynasty. I will probably know more as I get farther into the book, but I do have to wonder about pigeon holing an author, and could that be what has happened to Kay?

>76 benitastrnad:

If you had read the Lions of Al-Rassan, you do not have that much fantasy there either -- except being on another planet that is. And you figure that out because of the second moon showing up. So it sounds like a normal for Kay work.

77 But there was a young boy with certain powers, wasn't there?

>77 AnnieMod:

Well, yes. But my point is that Kay traditionally writes closer to history than to fantasy (with some exceptions).

@74 I found the characters a bit bland in LLOTS, I guess after the emotional highs of his earlier books I may have had too high expectations. There was no one I really cared about.

I just started rereading Sailing to Sarantium and right there in the 1st paragraph is a discussion of history is written and how is twisted, mythologized even. A theme carried (less successfully I think) on in Under Heaven. I can't remember if Ysabel touches on this too?

sorry for the duplicate post! my wifi crashed so I stupidly reposted without waiting...

Finished LLotS last night and wrote a brief review. There were lots of nice secondary characters but none of the headliners that he usually provides, i.e., no Alessan, Blaise, Crispin, Ammar, Jehane... and way more than his usual quota of references to his other books. I agree with RidgewayGirl that the rush of pairings was a bit much, and with clfisha that the characters were bland. But second-rate Kay is still better than a lot of other things I've read.

Have just got to the end of part one of under heaven - enjoying it so far, only another 500 or so pages to go...

79 That's absolutely true, of course. It's interesting to ponder what still makes him choose alternative worlds and fantasy elements rather than going for straight historical fiction. I'm guessing the bigger freedom is a big part of it, not feeling the restraint of historical fact. But I've also always felt that the sparse little pinch of fantasy that is in there - a magical creature, a psychic power, some magic - has worked extremely well. He creates worlds where the fantastical is possible, but rare, and that gives an ambience all of it's own. Would you agree?

Meanwhile, on the way to Sarantium, consider me properly engrossed. I've just enjoyed one of Kay's pinches of the fantastical with the enocunter with Logun of the Woods. I find myself eagerly trying to find snippets of reading time everywhere...

>84 GingerbreadMan:

Absolutely. Fantasy gives him the freedom not to search a mundane explanations for some actions and to make choices a historical novelist can not. And to alter history when needed without having all fans going postal over that. His gift is to get this small measure of magic/fantastical and just put it in the middle of the real mundane world showing how little the real world defers from a magical land. One of the reason I had always liked him - he is somewhere between the genres, bending one to meet another and removing the boundaries. Not so many authors can do that :) And he will never use a fantastical explanation just so he can unknot a particularly bad situation he managed to create - the whole concept of magical is part of his worlds and feels almost natural - to the point that I almost forget about these special powers in Al-Rassan - it is part of the world and so much made a real part of it that you almost don't realise that it defers from our world. :)

PS: And I am still stuck on other readers... so haven't even started on anything by him. And with a trip coming up next week, I might as well grab something from the earlier ones and read it on the Kindle instead of lagging my hardcover of Under Heaven... so will see what I do next.

62, 200 pages in, I see a triangle rising in Sailing to Sarantium too...

finished the disappointing under heaven started lions of al-rassan which I remember being one of his best books & I'm hoping will stand a re-read straight after one of his not so good books! if I have time this month I may also re-read a song for arbonne which I remember not liking but I think I read it straight after tigana so maybe it was an unfair comparison?

Well my pretty negative review of Under Heaven is on my thread. I found it deeply unengaging, the setting and characters all fell flat for me. The trick of having the main characters as mostly witness to a large plot didnt work at all. Very sad.

Still I am enjoying Sailing to Saratinium very much. Already tear in my eye as I read of plague in the opening few chapters.

#87 psutto, I read Arbonne after having read Fionavar and Tigana; it was the first of his more-history-than-fantasy books I read, and it required an adjustment from the previous works. On re-reading with different expectations, I found the characters and their interrelationships quite well done.

@89 haven't quite finished lions yet but am going off the idea of following it with Arbonne due to the fact that although thoroughly enjoying Lions I'm noticing its flaws a bit more than in the past after reading under heaven which means Arbonne probably will not stand up to a re-read straight after

Finished Ysabel yesterday. Not sure about it, there were aspects I liked about the book, but overall not a big fan of the story. Haven't been turned off by the author though, he has a very creative mind. Currently waiting for Last Light of the Sun, to become available at the library.

Just finished Sailing Saratinium. It's my third read through and I still love it. I Remember the 1st time I read it though I wasn't that enthusiatic, until I read Lord of Emperors. They are almost really one book, they fit so well together you need to see the whole..

Anyway to get some discussion going in and seeing how GGK is at great at creating strong, interesting and non-anachronistic female characters; Who is your favourite & why?

I think mine is Jehane in Lions of Al-Rassan for all of the reasons above, she is intelligent, funny, strong and feels real.

my somewhat negative review of under heaven is now on my thread

I'm about 1/3 finished with Tigana but I can't seem to get into it I have very mixed feelings about it so far. Hopefully I'll be able to finish it up in the next week or so.

I have 200 pages left in Under Heaven and really like this book. I gather that some of you didn't. I found the characters in keeping with the time in which they lived, and was very impressed with the strong female characters in the book. The growth of Li-Mei is of particular interest to me. I liked all the games in the palace and in this the book all that palace intrigue reminded me of Game of Thrones.

I do agree that the main characters seem to be observers, but also find that in keeping with the technique that the storyteller uses and the times in which the characters lived. But also in contrast to this thinking Shen Tai decides in one scene in the palace that he can either go along in the stream and let events take him where they will or he can make his own decisions and then does so. In that way he is the master of his own fate. I am liking this book and am not sure yet what I will rate it but it will certainly get three stars and probably more like four. I don't give five stars to any book so four stars is a high rating for me.

#92 It's hard to argue with Jehane. She's a wonderful character. I'm conflicted about Dianora, which I feel sure is Kay's intention, so in that sense she's well drawn. I like Aliana a lot, particularly her statement that porphyry is a suitable attire for death and her inventive way of avoiding discovery at Rustem's house ;-) I also like Signe quite a bit--she is perceptive and sensitive, but strong--but she's really a secondary character.

#95 - I also enjoyed Under Heaven. I was surprised by the story of Li-Mei and enjoyed it. Her attitude and decisions were interesting. I think most of the female characters in Under Heaven came across as better overall people, stronger in making the choices for the good of the nation and others, than many of the men were.

I also liked The Last Light of the Sun, especially the relationship between the fathers and children that he portrayed.

I've finished A Song for Arbonne. I enjoyed it very much, though I don't think I liked it as much as Under Heaven, which I'd read a few months ago.

On the subject of female characters, this book features a good number of strong and interesting women, though most of them are not developed all that thoroughly. I particularly liked the character of Lisseut and would have welcomed more of her story.

I've never been a huge fan of fantasy, so I appreciate Kay's light use of fantasy in his novels that read more like historical fiction. It makes his stories imaginative but still very believable.

I'm thinking of picking up Sailing to Sarantium next, since so many people have recommended it, but I don't think I'll be able to finish it by the end of March. On the other hand, there's no reason why this group read needs to end by March 31. :)

98 It might be a GGK year :) I find myself wanting to reread Lions of Al-Rasan next! I remember wanting to read more of Lisseut too, its one of reason I felt let down by Arbonne.

@96 Dianora is an interesting character and added much needed depth to the usual black & white fantasy setting, a tragic but very human figure.. Mind you I am probably the only person ever to root for the bad guy in Tigana :)

I have not read any other Kay books except the one I am reading now Under Heaven and have been surprised by the strong female characters in this book. While they are very constricted in movement they have proved to be very creative in finding ways to work around those restrictions. This makes them resourceful and imaginative which in turn makes them interesting to read about.

#98 I agree with with you totally about the use of fantasy in this novel. The light use of fantasy elements combined with the religious beliefs and practices of China makes the story very believable with just enough spice to really pique my interest and keep it going. While I haven't had much time to read these last two weeks this book is keeping me up longer at night than I sometimes want.

#99 I think Brandin might be the best character in Tigana. As one of my other favorite writers, Gene Wolfe, says, the best villain is one who is very nearly a hero. I wish we saw a little more of the flaw he has in his obsessive devotion to his dead son. I see how it influences his big actions in Tigana but not how it affects him every day in other ways. Maybe I'm just missing it or forgetting details.

>95 benitastrnad: I am relived to read your comments on the Under Heaven. I was getting a little worried by all the negative reviews;) I had just started Under Heaven when I found George R.R. Martin was finally going to bring out the next book in his series. I decided switched over to A Game of Thrones so I can re-read the series before then. Given your comments, I think I will end up liking Under Heaven as the political intrigue is one of my favorite things about Martin's series.

In a small cabin in the ski resort Idre in middle Sweden, I wrapped up Sailing to Sarantium last night. I enjoyed it a lot - and can't really understand why I waited three years to pick up Kay again after loving The lions of Al-Rassan a few years ago. The finishing romantic cliffhanger actually made me plunge straight into Lord of Emperors this morning - even though I never read two thick books by the same author in a row.

Finally got round to starting something for this a couple of days ago. The only one that I've got that fits my categories is the 2nd of the Fionavar Tapestry books, The Wandering Fire. It will go in my continuations category.

#102 Tanglewood

The back and forth dialogue between Shen Tai and his various contacts is very sharp. The scene in the palace room with the Beloved Consort and the First Minister was amusing word play while being very dangerous for those participants. There is also a poet who engages in very sharp dialogue with Shen Tai and others that I found to be great reading. I am now about 150 pages from the end and finding this book to be very very good. I think that if I understood more about Chinese culture I would be more able to identify the "fantasy" elements in the book because it may be that what I am interpreting as religious mystic experiences are really fantasy and what I think is Chinese folklore are really fantasy. (There are no dragons, but there are wolves in this book) Either way I find them to be good additions to the story.

@103 They do fit perfectly together :-)

104 I think his Fionavar books are oneof my favourite fantasies. He uses well known myths and tropes ut he does it so well.

I stayed up late last night to finish Under Heaven. I thought I could finish it, but fell asleep. So I finished the book over coffee this morning. What a wonderful book. The author set the right tone at the beginning and the story built and built. The palace intrigue was masterfully written. The dialogue was outstanding. A book full of nasty villains and out sized heroics from both the men and the women. I loved it. I rarely give a book five stars but will do so for this book.

I took some Chinese history classes a few years back (mostly regarding modern China) and, though I am not an expert, I thought this book was so evocative of the culture and the landscape. I loved all the poems that were worked into the story, and at the end found out that the poets he quoted really lived.

At first I thought that this might be another one of those macho fantasy books were the man screws his way through the story, but was delighted to find a lot of romance and just enough titillation to be exciting.

I am a bit puzzled that this book is classed as fantasy. If it is, it is very light. I really think that this is more historical epic. The fantasy elements seem to me to be more of religious mysticism, or at least could be explained using a religious interpretation.

Lastly, I loved, loved, loved the ending. The epilogue was just perfect. The story started with ghosts and ended with them. I am so glad that I decided to pick up this book after it sat on my shelves for a year. Thanks for the group read guys. it prompted me to pull this one out and read it.

so having read only 2 GGK books for March and running out of March to read another I thought I'd compare the two books against each other.

I possibly had too high an expectation for under heaven hoping for another Sarantium or even Lions or Tigana and that expectation was disappointed...

However the difference between the two books, for me, was that the setting of Lions was more deftly done than Under Heaven - I feel that the names were so similar to their real life analogues in Under Heaven that he shouldn't have bothered to change them, a minor niggle maybe but a constant distraction throughout the book - at least in Lions the new words for things were utterly unlike the familiar words & also were not directly analagous (apart from Esperana perhaps) - Christianity = Jad, the Jewish faith = Kindath etc although he had made the faiths slightly more fantasy through the use of worshipping the Sun, the 2 moons and the stars.

In Under Heaven he changed the name of a historical character from An Shi to An Li, the city of Xian was changed to Xinan, the Shaolin were called Kanlin, there were direct analogues of Confucious & Daoism - I could go on!

Also the characters in Lions were, although larger than life (and perhaps unrealistic because of this? although one was based on El Cid so perhaps not?) very involved in the story - the characters in Under Heaven appeared to be alive whilst important stuff was going on that sort of affected them but they didn't affect the events - i.e. if you took the main characters out of the book it would have made very little difference to the story

And finally Kay's use of repetition in Lions is much more incorporated into the text, its not a straight repetition of a phrase ("they were afraid of wolves") more a repetition of the theme that the desert warriors thought that Al-Rassan had become decadent and soft - much more subtly done and subliminally manipulative (and much more noticable after reading Under Heaven because I was looking for it in Lions)

It appeared to me that GGK has listened to the criticism that he has been too subtle in the past and has tried to dumb himself down a little - I, for one, miss the subtlety...

Some time ago on this thread somebody mentioned that Kay likes his double moons. While reading Under Heaven I found a reference to double moons tucked away in an inconspicuous place. I found this reference to be amusing and would have missed it if you guys had not alerted me to watch for a reference like that. I thought it was very subtle and masterfully inserted. Something only his loyal fans would have noticed.

"Zian murmured, 'Do you know ... well, no, you can't possibly know, since I have never told anyone ... but I have sometimes dreamed of a second moon to write about. Wouldn't that be a gift?'" This was on page 355 in my copy and was part of a story about a poetry contest held at court. As usual it was more than just a poetry contest, and full of double meanings and word play.

thanks for alerting me to the whole double moon thing. It was fun knowing about it and fun finding this reference tucked away inside the book.

I only managed one Kay book for March. Although I'll be reading The Last Light of the Sun soon - now that the library finally sent me my request. I waited all month for it, was the only one requesting it, yet something happened and it took me cancelling and re-requesting the book, just to get it to my branch. Sigh.

Read Ysabel. I liked the general idea behind the story, but so much about the book didn't work. I felt he spent to much time trying to be "cool" and connect to a younger audience, the story got lost in the jumble. Here's my full review.

Not turned off the author, as Last Light of the Sun looks very promising.

#110 - I read Ysabel this month as well, it was ok but I am glad that it wasn't my first GGK. I don't think it is truly representative of his work, I hope you enjoy The Last Light of the Sun.

My GGK march is spilling into april. I have about a hundred pages to go with Lord of Emperors, which looks likely to sit at the same pinnacle as Tigana for me. Really really enjoying it, but I am slightly worried how he is going to land all those storylines in a way that won't feel strained. A crappy ending is really the only thing that could bring this book down for me now.

I both want to read and read and read and savour the hundred or so pages I have left. Isn't that one of the best feelings when reading?

thats definitely the best place to be when reading :-)

112 I love that but I have no willpower so I tend to race through it ;) I think Lord of Emperors was one of the few books that I couldnt put down very early on.

I saw an interesting expression today. In the Note from the Author at the beginning of Indemnity Only, Sara Paretsky says of agent Dominick Abel, "in the old Chinese words, I would send him for horses," presumably meaning that she considers him trustworthy. I have not turned up any explanation or other references to this expression, but I wonder if GGK had it in mind when he began work on Under Heaven. Has anyone heard this expression before?

Never heard the expression, but given the importance of horses to the Chinese military in the Tang Dynasty I can understand its meaning.