Ranking Arion Press Publications
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1Neil77
Recently, I have purchased quite a few Arion Press titles and have been absolutely amazed with their craftsmanship. Thought this would be a good opportunity to know the top 5 published by Arion Press. My favourites are:
1. Don Quixote
2. The Hound of Baskervilles
3. The Case of the Wolf-Man
4. The Big Sleep
5. The Maltese Falcon
1. Don Quixote
2. The Hound of Baskervilles
3. The Case of the Wolf-Man
4. The Big Sleep
5. The Maltese Falcon
2busywine
>1 Neil77:, those are all fantastic in my opinion. Certainly, Arion's top two ever would be Moby Dick and Apocalypse. Leaves of Grass would be in my top 5, as would Paradise Lost and Physiology of Taste.
3dlphcoracl
>1 Neil77:
Similar to 'busywine' (Chris), I own nearly half of the Arion Press' 100-plus publications. However, the preponderance of my Arion Press collection is in their earlier titles published in their first two decades. My Top Ten Arion Press books are:
1. Moby Dick
2. The Holy Bible - 2 volume set in full Nigerian goatskin leather binding
3. Ulysses
4. The Temple of Flora
5. The Apocalypse
6. Tristram Shandy - Although John Baldessari's bizarre photo-collages are
highly controversial, I believe they are perfect for this highly experimental
work of literature.
7. Flatland
8. The Physiology of Taste
9. Paradise Lost with the thirteen William Blake watercolor illustrations (full
scale facsimiles from the Hungtinton Library originals, issued separately))
10. Cane - the special edition (fifty copies) with full brown goatskin
leather binding in a special wooden slipcase designed by Martin Puryear and produced in his studio.
Similar to 'busywine' (Chris), I own nearly half of the Arion Press' 100-plus publications. However, the preponderance of my Arion Press collection is in their earlier titles published in their first two decades. My Top Ten Arion Press books are:
1. Moby Dick
2. The Holy Bible - 2 volume set in full Nigerian goatskin leather binding
3. Ulysses
4. The Temple of Flora
5. The Apocalypse
6. Tristram Shandy - Although John Baldessari's bizarre photo-collages are
highly controversial, I believe they are perfect for this highly experimental
work of literature.
7. Flatland
8. The Physiology of Taste
9. Paradise Lost with the thirteen William Blake watercolor illustrations (full
scale facsimiles from the Hungtinton Library originals, issued separately))
10. Cane - the special edition (fifty copies) with full brown goatskin
leather binding in a special wooden slipcase designed by Martin Puryear and produced in his studio.
4astropi
Arion Press are typically out of my price range, but I have to say I appreciate it when they publish "lesser known" works, such as The Sundial by Shirley Jackson.
http://www.arionpress.com/catalog/091.htm
I did get a chance to hold and view their Moby Dick (my alma mater has an amazing rare books library) and it is magnificent. I think their artwork goes from majestic (The Sundial) to atrocious (Ulysses). Of course I realize everyone has different taste. Also, I'm personally thankful that much of their work is not to my taste, so I'm not tempted for the most part. That said, Don Quixote looks magnificent (although considering the price it's far beyond what most of us can afford), and if I were rich, Moby Dick is one of the most beautiful books I have held.
http://www.arionpress.com/catalog/091.htm
I did get a chance to hold and view their Moby Dick (my alma mater has an amazing rare books library) and it is magnificent. I think their artwork goes from majestic (The Sundial) to atrocious (Ulysses). Of course I realize everyone has different taste. Also, I'm personally thankful that much of their work is not to my taste, so I'm not tempted for the most part. That said, Don Quixote looks magnificent (although considering the price it's far beyond what most of us can afford), and if I were rich, Moby Dick is one of the most beautiful books I have held.
5kdweber
>3 dlphcoracl: Did you go for the version of the bible with illuminated leading initials?
6dlphcoracl
>5 kdweber:
No, I did not.
I knew what the illuminated initials would look like because Thomas Ingmire also used them in a very early Arion Press edition that I own, namely, The Psalms of David - the Arion Press' fifth publication. I felt that these illuminated initial letters were unnecessary and detracted from the simplicity, austerity, and beauty of the edition in black, white, and red. Put another way, I thought that a bit of Doves Press minimalism worked better and passage of time has only reinforced that decision.
No, I did not.
I knew what the illuminated initials would look like because Thomas Ingmire also used them in a very early Arion Press edition that I own, namely, The Psalms of David - the Arion Press' fifth publication. I felt that these illuminated initial letters were unnecessary and detracted from the simplicity, austerity, and beauty of the edition in black, white, and red. Put another way, I thought that a bit of Doves Press minimalism worked better and passage of time has only reinforced that decision.
7ultrarightist
>4 astropi: I agree with your assessments. I held and perused the AP Don Quixote at Codex earlier this year, and it is indeed a beauty. As always, the typography is top notch. The cover does not suffer from the austere modernism (or minimalism) of many AP editions that so fails to please my aesthetic.
8Neil77
>4 astropi:, >7 ultrarightist:
Don Quixote is magnificent.
I agree - much of AP's repertoire is not to my taste as well. That said, I loved their recent "The Leopard". Thanks to busywine for enabling me.
Don Quixote is magnificent.
I agree - much of AP's repertoire is not to my taste as well. That said, I loved their recent "The Leopard". Thanks to busywine for enabling me.
9ultrarightist
>8 Neil77: I would also add that the AP edition of the Maltese Falcon is excellent, including the cover. I cannot imagine a more apropos cover for the Maltese Falcon.
10Neil77
>9 ultrarightist: ultrarightist: Absolutely - it is gorgeous....
11kdweber
I just picked up a number of books from Aaronpepperdine (thanks Aaron) from multiple fine presses: LEC, Arion Press, Allen Press, and Yolla Bolly Press and once again, I'm disappointed with my AP purchase - The Hound of the Baskervilles. I find the paper, printing and design of these other fine presses to be superior to most of my AP purchases. Of my dozen AP books, only Arcadia stands out. A Lie of the Mind and American Buffalo are nice and probably LEC quality but The Price by Arthur Miller doesn't hold up against the LEC Death of a Salesman. Don't get me wrong, I feel that the AP makes very nice books but way over priced for what you get.
12wcarter
>11 kdweber:
I agree, I too am disappointed in Arion Press, and will purchase no more.
I agree, I too am disappointed in Arion Press, and will purchase no more.
13dlphcoracl
>11 kdweber:
>12 wcarter:
Don't throw the occasional baby out with the bath water.
Unfortunately, the subscriber model that Arion Press has adopted, in which subscribers commit to purchase ALL future publications at a 30% discount, has resulted in very uneven publications which suffer by comparison to several other private presses. Additionally , many are poorly priced for what they are. That said, looking at their last 9 or 10 publications Pedro Paramo, the Leopard, and their 100th publication edition of Leaves of Grass are excellent. Wilkie Collins' 'The Moonstone (2012), which I recently acquired, is outstanding and well-priced at $600. The others? Not so much.
As an aside, one major criticism I have is their commissioning and use of abstract art from highly regarded artists in their poetry collections. The illustrations have absolutely nothing to do with the poetry and are a distraction, actually detracting from the publication. Their last three poetry books - the Poetry of Sappho, What the End is For (poetry of Jorie Graham) and the newly-released 'The Little of Our Earthly Trust (poetry collection of Elizabeth Bishop) are cases in point. These livres d'artiste books must add considerably to the prices of these books and I would gladly do without these illustrations to have the prices reduced by 25% to 35%. $1,200 for a collection of Elizabeth Bishop's poetry in a 9 7/8 x 6 7/8 inch book with binding of 1/4 goatskin and cloth over boards??
Uh, no.
>12 wcarter:
Don't throw the occasional baby out with the bath water.
Unfortunately, the subscriber model that Arion Press has adopted, in which subscribers commit to purchase ALL future publications at a 30% discount, has resulted in very uneven publications which suffer by comparison to several other private presses. Additionally , many are poorly priced for what they are. That said, looking at their last 9 or 10 publications Pedro Paramo, the Leopard, and their 100th publication edition of Leaves of Grass are excellent. Wilkie Collins' 'The Moonstone (2012), which I recently acquired, is outstanding and well-priced at $600. The others? Not so much.
As an aside, one major criticism I have is their commissioning and use of abstract art from highly regarded artists in their poetry collections. The illustrations have absolutely nothing to do with the poetry and are a distraction, actually detracting from the publication. Their last three poetry books - the Poetry of Sappho, What the End is For (poetry of Jorie Graham) and the newly-released 'The Little of Our Earthly Trust (poetry collection of Elizabeth Bishop) are cases in point. These livres d'artiste books must add considerably to the prices of these books and I would gladly do without these illustrations to have the prices reduced by 25% to 35%. $1,200 for a collection of Elizabeth Bishop's poetry in a 9 7/8 x 6 7/8 inch book with binding of 1/4 goatskin and cloth over boards??
Uh, no.
14busywine
Arion Press has as part of its mission "to match the finest contemporary art with the finest literature past and present." One may not like contemporary art, perhaps especially when paired with works of literature, but that is what they have chosen to do and so in my opinion works need to be contemplated with that mission in mind. I myself prefer more traditional, classic styles of illustration, but subscribed despite that preference for a number of reasons:
1) Their choice of titles are, in aggregate, excellent. They mix old school classics from ancient Greece to modern times (like Moby Dick, Leaves of Grass, Don Quixote, Sappho yo T.S. Eliot, etc) with deserving modern works (such as Elizabeth Bishop, Pedro Paramo, etc) to underrepresented works that have much going for them (The Sundial, Bouvard & Pécuchet, The Day of the Locust, etc). Look at dlphcoracl's list above, pretty awesome top 10!
2) Their productions are not limited to short stories and 50 pages which seems to plague today's private presses - who else today could do Don Quixote or the Bible?
3) They often commission new works -- by poets, critics, and scholars -- new material for their publication, be it introductions, new translations, or illustrations by -- like them or not - major figures in today's art world, etc. The extent of such is unmatched, due to cost, in today's private press world.
4) Type is composed and cast on the premises by M & H Type, established in 1915, the oldest and largest typefoundry still operating in this country. That is awesome.
5) Even more awesome: Arion Press is a self-sustaining business and has never been subsidized by grants. Think about that, and realize the work and dedication to have survived this long. Perhaps they do not produce exactly what all on this list precisely want, but so what -- -one can never make everyone happy. Perhaps the cost seems quite high, but when you do everything in house, employ ~10 skilled artisans who often go on to their own destiny's, and produce books in a private press tradition that we all claim to lament the decline of -- the cost is minor compared to the importance.
As for papers, lately their go-to has been variations of Magnani, not exactly a poor quality mill... and look at what else they use: handmade Barcham Green paper is about as good as it gets, handmade Arokaji koso washi, handmade Langley paper, Zerkall ivory, Somerset Book, mouldmade Hahnemühle, Arches --- you get the point.... One can pick up a few random LEC works over the years and not be super impressed with something in those volumes, but as a whole the choices were excellent as they are here. As for The Hound of the Baskervilles, the paper is Monadnock Dulcet -- I am not sure I would have chosen it, but I am pretty certain it was chosen based on what would best shows Michael Kenna's excellent photography. Frankly, I do not care greatly for the page layout in that book, on the other hand Kenna's work is well worth the price of admission.
I certainly respect kdweber's opinions and I think his feedback should be listened to by Arion, but I would suggest, fwiw, that the works listed by him are among what I would call the more standard Arion works (akin to me listing off a bunch of 1970's LEC's and drawing conclusions on their entire oeuvre based on that). Again, kdweber, please no offense. I realize the books can cost a pretty penny, and many that you mention are the entry books into, and that you should be able to expect a lot when spending that money...just saying, going back to #5 and #2 above....
Lastly, I will point out that one advantage of being a subscriber -- 30% off the price is quite substantial (the equivalent of every third book being free) -- so even if the hit rate is only 2 of 3 (and I would argue it is better than that), one is still in good shape. Also, they do take comments, suggestions and fair constructive criticisms from subscribers quite seriously IMO, so it is nice to be able to have input.
Look, I do not mean to be a cheerleader and I especially do not mean to demean anyone's opinions on this short thread, which includes many people I really do respect. I have some criticisms myself, usually kept private. I simply hugely respect a business like Arion, that has been swimming against the mainstream mass produced ugliness for decades now, while doing their best to try to provide us lovers of private presses new works, while starting true to their mission and love, which is contemporary art (which I again will remind you I am not a huge fan of!). Cost is a function on #2, #4 and $5 above, and I would prefer they stick to those principles and not lower cost by becoming tools of government or other grants.
1) Their choice of titles are, in aggregate, excellent. They mix old school classics from ancient Greece to modern times (like Moby Dick, Leaves of Grass, Don Quixote, Sappho yo T.S. Eliot, etc) with deserving modern works (such as Elizabeth Bishop, Pedro Paramo, etc) to underrepresented works that have much going for them (The Sundial, Bouvard & Pécuchet, The Day of the Locust, etc). Look at dlphcoracl's list above, pretty awesome top 10!
2) Their productions are not limited to short stories and 50 pages which seems to plague today's private presses - who else today could do Don Quixote or the Bible?
3) They often commission new works -- by poets, critics, and scholars -- new material for their publication, be it introductions, new translations, or illustrations by -- like them or not - major figures in today's art world, etc. The extent of such is unmatched, due to cost, in today's private press world.
4) Type is composed and cast on the premises by M & H Type, established in 1915, the oldest and largest typefoundry still operating in this country. That is awesome.
5) Even more awesome: Arion Press is a self-sustaining business and has never been subsidized by grants. Think about that, and realize the work and dedication to have survived this long. Perhaps they do not produce exactly what all on this list precisely want, but so what -- -one can never make everyone happy. Perhaps the cost seems quite high, but when you do everything in house, employ ~10 skilled artisans who often go on to their own destiny's, and produce books in a private press tradition that we all claim to lament the decline of -- the cost is minor compared to the importance.
As for papers, lately their go-to has been variations of Magnani, not exactly a poor quality mill... and look at what else they use: handmade Barcham Green paper is about as good as it gets, handmade Arokaji koso washi, handmade Langley paper, Zerkall ivory, Somerset Book, mouldmade Hahnemühle, Arches --- you get the point.... One can pick up a few random LEC works over the years and not be super impressed with something in those volumes, but as a whole the choices were excellent as they are here. As for The Hound of the Baskervilles, the paper is Monadnock Dulcet -- I am not sure I would have chosen it, but I am pretty certain it was chosen based on what would best shows Michael Kenna's excellent photography. Frankly, I do not care greatly for the page layout in that book, on the other hand Kenna's work is well worth the price of admission.
I certainly respect kdweber's opinions and I think his feedback should be listened to by Arion, but I would suggest, fwiw, that the works listed by him are among what I would call the more standard Arion works (akin to me listing off a bunch of 1970's LEC's and drawing conclusions on their entire oeuvre based on that). Again, kdweber, please no offense. I realize the books can cost a pretty penny, and many that you mention are the entry books into, and that you should be able to expect a lot when spending that money...just saying, going back to #5 and #2 above....
Lastly, I will point out that one advantage of being a subscriber -- 30% off the price is quite substantial (the equivalent of every third book being free) -- so even if the hit rate is only 2 of 3 (and I would argue it is better than that), one is still in good shape. Also, they do take comments, suggestions and fair constructive criticisms from subscribers quite seriously IMO, so it is nice to be able to have input.
Look, I do not mean to be a cheerleader and I especially do not mean to demean anyone's opinions on this short thread, which includes many people I really do respect. I have some criticisms myself, usually kept private. I simply hugely respect a business like Arion, that has been swimming against the mainstream mass produced ugliness for decades now, while doing their best to try to provide us lovers of private presses new works, while starting true to their mission and love, which is contemporary art (which I again will remind you I am not a huge fan of!). Cost is a function on #2, #4 and $5 above, and I would prefer they stick to those principles and not lower cost by becoming tools of government or other grants.
15ultrarightist
>14 busywine: Very well said, Chris. You make some great points, and I wholeheartedly concur about Arion sticking to its business model and not becoming a tool of the government. I do think, however, that Andrew Hoyem should hire a book designer or some protege with an eye toward passing the baton in the future, injecting some fresh blood at the higher level while the old blood still has the vigor to transmit knowledge and lore.
16busywine
>15 ultrarightist:, agree, doing so seems very important -- I often wonder what the 'pass the baton' strategy is (which hopefully is ultimately not needed for quite some time still!). Some of the people who have worked at Arion and moved on, have some amazing skill (just look at Foolscap!).
17ultrarightist
>16 busywine: Yes, Foolscap! Great press and a lovely couple. I have two of their productions and I treasure them. Mayhaps you have some news about Foolscap for your annual holiday post. One can hope...
18busywine
>17 ultrarightist:, there certainly will be such news! teaser, I know.
19jveezer
I appreciate Arion Press also, as who else is going to publish a Don Quixote any more, or a Pedro Páramo.
But I will agree that I think that the two regular yearly issues tend to be overpriced at their full price. They are about right at the subscriber discount, and I was happy with them when I was a subscriber. But now that I'm not, even with my favorite Mexican novel like the Rulfo, I have to think long and hard and actually see the book before I would pay $850. That would buy a lot of other press' books that are on my wishlist.
And I also agree that some new design ideas would be great at the press. That could come from a new designer or Andrew could loosen his iron grip on his talented staff and I believe some amazing things would happen. You only have to look to Foolscap, Sharp Teeth/Prototype, and some other alumnus of the AP to see that.
But I will agree that I think that the two regular yearly issues tend to be overpriced at their full price. They are about right at the subscriber discount, and I was happy with them when I was a subscriber. But now that I'm not, even with my favorite Mexican novel like the Rulfo, I have to think long and hard and actually see the book before I would pay $850. That would buy a lot of other press' books that are on my wishlist.
And I also agree that some new design ideas would be great at the press. That could come from a new designer or Andrew could loosen his iron grip on his talented staff and I believe some amazing things would happen. You only have to look to Foolscap, Sharp Teeth/Prototype, and some other alumnus of the AP to see that.
20wcarter
>19 jveezer:
Actually, the Folio Society did a very nice Don Quixote LE at a fraction of the Arion price.
Actually, the Folio Society did a very nice Don Quixote LE at a fraction of the Arion price.
21busywine
> 20, not at all comparable, imo. Nothing wrong with it at all, nice in fact, but pretty big difference in production quality along with price.
22johnaba
Getting back to the original subject, I wanted to mention the AP's edition of The Great Gatsby. I found one of these over the summer and didn't hesitate to buy it. Among AP's non-deluxe books, this is one of their best. I hadn't read the novel in several years, so about a month ago I sat down to read this Arion edition. I found myself totally absorbed in the story again, not just because of Fitzgerald's beautiful prose, but the type, the Rives paper, and artwork meshed perfectly together to make a wonderful reading experience.
I would hate to call any book's design "perfect", but the AP Great Gratsby is close.
I would hate to call any book's design "perfect", but the AP Great Gratsby is close.
23astropi
20-21: Easton Press also released a limited edition featuring the Dali illustrations. I opted for that because it was a mere fraction of the cost of the Arion edition, and the Dali illustrations are gorgeous! Still, I have to admit that nothing compares to letterpress. However, few can afford a $4000 book.
24busywine
>23 astropi:, agree, and thankfully as you and wcarter mention there are nice alternatives.
25astropi
24: Also, you get a 30% discount as a subscriber? At $2800, the Arion Don Quixote is still super pricey, but obviously far less expensive than $4000. But anyway, based on the books I have seen, my personal favorite Arion Press editions are:
1)Moby Dick -SO jealous of anyone that has this! A true work of art, the most beautiful edition of this classic ever published...
2)Leaves of Grass -wish I had gotten this :( it's all but perfect in so many ways.
3)Flatland -sigh, another Arion Press edition I wish I had...
4)The Sundial -woah! a beautiful Arion Press book that is actually affordable? (although still not cheap)! Nicely done, why don't we have more such publications??
5)South of Heaven -continuing my list of books I don't have but want :) I have to say I'm a huge Jim Thompson fan! If you haven't read his works, you're missing out. South of Heaven is a gentle introduction to a brilliant but tormented American author...
6)The Price -I'm amazed this is still available! Not cheap, but at $425 (non-member price) this is quite a deal considering it is signed by Arthur Miller! Anyway you look at it, the AP illustrations are better than the terrible LEC illustrations for Death of a Salesman (which is of course another wonderful play by the great Miller...
1)Moby Dick -SO jealous of anyone that has this! A true work of art, the most beautiful edition of this classic ever published...
2)Leaves of Grass -wish I had gotten this :( it's all but perfect in so many ways.
3)Flatland -sigh, another Arion Press edition I wish I had...
4)The Sundial -woah! a beautiful Arion Press book that is actually affordable? (although still not cheap)! Nicely done, why don't we have more such publications??
5)South of Heaven -continuing my list of books I don't have but want :) I have to say I'm a huge Jim Thompson fan! If you haven't read his works, you're missing out. South of Heaven is a gentle introduction to a brilliant but tormented American author...
6)The Price -I'm amazed this is still available! Not cheap, but at $425 (non-member price) this is quite a deal considering it is signed by Arthur Miller! Anyway you look at it, the AP illustrations are better than the terrible LEC illustrations for Death of a Salesman (which is of course another wonderful play by the great Miller...
26dlphcoracl
>25 astropi:
Re: 2) - Leaves of Grass.
You and me both. I procrastinated on this and it literally sold out overnight following a PBS broadcast on the planning and printing of this book. I have yet to see it appear for resale since.
Re: 2) - Leaves of Grass.
You and me both. I procrastinated on this and it literally sold out overnight following a PBS broadcast on the planning and printing of this book. I have yet to see it appear for resale since.
27astropi
26: I suspect at this point, if it does go up for sale on the secondhand market it will be uber expensive. Although in some ways, I don't know if it's better than the magnificent LEC edition... hmmm, tough call....
28dlphcoracl
> 27
" I don't know if it's better than the magnificent LEC edition....."
It isn't. Not as far as I am concerned, anyway. Edward Weston's photographs as he traveled across America in 1941-1942 during the war years are every bit as successful in capturing the spirit and exuberance of the America Walt Whitman captured in his long, epic poem. This LEC book is a perfect marriage of illustrator/photographer and work of literature or poetry. I even prefer this edition to the Grabhorn Press magnum opus.
" I don't know if it's better than the magnificent LEC edition....."
It isn't. Not as far as I am concerned, anyway. Edward Weston's photographs as he traveled across America in 1941-1942 during the war years are every bit as successful in capturing the spirit and exuberance of the America Walt Whitman captured in his long, epic poem. This LEC book is a perfect marriage of illustrator/photographer and work of literature or poetry. I even prefer this edition to the Grabhorn Press magnum opus.
29jveezer
>20 wcarter: Yes, I have that too and love it. I prefer the FS illustrations to the AP but the AP overall is much better for me.
30jveezer
Here are my top 5 simply ranked by the "fire test": if I could only save one from the fire, which would it be...
Ulysses
Don Quixote
Leaves of Grass
Orlando
The Waste Land
I actually ranked all 30'ish AP books that I have or have spent considerable time with using this same criteria and it was very interesting.
Ulysses
Don Quixote
Leaves of Grass
Orlando
The Waste Land
I actually ranked all 30'ish AP books that I have or have spent considerable time with using this same criteria and it was very interesting.
32dlphcoracl
>30 jveezer:
Beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder. The AP Orlando is actually a book I would throw INTO the fire, not rescue from the fire. Cannot argue with your top 3 choices, however.
Beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder. The AP Orlando is actually a book I would throw INTO the fire, not rescue from the fire. Cannot argue with your top 3 choices, however.
33elladan0891
I'm sure that the $4K Don Quixote and other expensive books like Moby Dick and Apocalypse listed by many are all very nice (they better be in that price range), but what about your favorites among the affordable APs? What are their best entry-level titles?
I'd like to give AP a go, but I don't want to get get burned like wcarter and some others and end up purchasing a greatly overpriced fairly ordinary (though still quality) book. I hope AP does have some gems at the entry-level.
I'd like to give AP a go, but I don't want to get get burned like wcarter and some others and end up purchasing a greatly overpriced fairly ordinary (though still quality) book. I hope AP does have some gems at the entry-level.
34busywine
>33 elladan0891:, great question, and I am sure lots of opinions. My favorites amongst the more standard editions are:
Captivity Narrative of Hannah Duston (this one is little discussed, but awesome!)
Psalms of David
The Moonstone
The Maltese Falcon
The Great Gatsby
The Big Sleep
The Silverado Squatters
The Voices of Marrakesh (another below the radar, but excellent)
Tono-Bungay
The Sundial
South of Heaven
Stone from Delphi
Porgy & Bess
The Leopard
Captivity Narrative of Hannah Duston (this one is little discussed, but awesome!)
Psalms of David
The Moonstone
The Maltese Falcon
The Great Gatsby
The Big Sleep
The Silverado Squatters
The Voices of Marrakesh (another below the radar, but excellent)
Tono-Bungay
The Sundial
South of Heaven
Stone from Delphi
Porgy & Bess
The Leopard
35wcarter
>34 busywine:
I thought I would look at the three titles here that I would want to read in a fine press edition.
The Maltese Falcon US$1500 (secondary market as OOP with Arion)
The Moonstone US$600
The Leopard US$750 (LEC available for US$250)
I'm sure they are very nice, but I think I will stick with LEC or FS editions for now.
I thought I would look at the three titles here that I would want to read in a fine press edition.
The Maltese Falcon US$1500 (secondary market as OOP with Arion)
The Moonstone US$600
The Leopard US$750 (LEC available for US$250)
I'm sure they are very nice, but I think I will stick with LEC or FS editions for now.
36dlphcoracl
My choices for the best of the affordable Arion Press books are listed below. Note that many (most?) of these titles can be purchased well below the initial asking price with a little patience and diligence. I would not pay list price for several of these books but they are attractive when sold at a discount. In order of publication date:
1. Venus and Adonis by Wm. Shakespeare (1975)
2. A Travel Book by Fred Martin (1976)
3. The Psalms of David and Others translated by Arthur Golding (1977)
4. The Lay of the Love and Death of Cornet Christoph Rilke by Rainer Maria Rilke (1983). This is
hands down the AP book with the most bang for the buck. A long stirring poem, bilingual, superb
handmade paper and 29 two-color drawings by Warren Chappell. It is consistently among the
least expensive AP titles for reasons that totally escape me.
5. The Hound of the Baskervilles by A.C. Doyle (1985)
6. Captivity Narrative of Hannah Duston (1987)
7. The Voices of Marrakesh by Elias Canetti (2001)
8. Tartuffe by Moliere (2004)
9. The Age of Innocence by Edith Wharton (2004). Although published at $850 I have often seen it
sell for substantially less money. Very nice production of a major literary work.
10. The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin (2006). A tasteful, modest publication that (again)
often sells at a nice discount.
11. The Sundial by Shirley Jackson (2011)
12. South of Heaven (2010)
13. The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins (2012).
1. Venus and Adonis by Wm. Shakespeare (1975)
2. A Travel Book by Fred Martin (1976)
3. The Psalms of David and Others translated by Arthur Golding (1977)
4. The Lay of the Love and Death of Cornet Christoph Rilke by Rainer Maria Rilke (1983). This is
hands down the AP book with the most bang for the buck. A long stirring poem, bilingual, superb
handmade paper and 29 two-color drawings by Warren Chappell. It is consistently among the
least expensive AP titles for reasons that totally escape me.
5. The Hound of the Baskervilles by A.C. Doyle (1985)
6. Captivity Narrative of Hannah Duston (1987)
7. The Voices of Marrakesh by Elias Canetti (2001)
8. Tartuffe by Moliere (2004)
9. The Age of Innocence by Edith Wharton (2004). Although published at $850 I have often seen it
sell for substantially less money. Very nice production of a major literary work.
10. The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin (2006). A tasteful, modest publication that (again)
often sells at a nice discount.
11. The Sundial by Shirley Jackson (2011)
12. South of Heaven (2010)
13. The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins (2012).
37jveezer
For what it's worth, here's my complete list, again ranked just ranked by going through the list multiple times and looking at each pair of books and switching the order of the pair to the one I would keep from the fire if I had to make a choice...And I've only ranked the AP books that I own from when I was a subscriber or that I have intimate knowledge of. As more of a reader than collector, this is maybe more influenced by literary content and the intangibles of the reading experience, and aesthetics than things like cost, resale value, or reputation of the artist. So a favorite book/author like Ulysses/Joyce would float to the top for me other books. And the latest Pedro Paramo would probably be up there in the top 10 because of my love for that particular work of literature even though I haven't yet seen it and can't afford it at this time.
>36 dlphcoracl: I agree on the Rilke. You can see that it was my #6, just outside of the Top5 list I shared earlier, and above many books more expensive. The Canetti is similarly next on the list.
Ulysses
Don Quixote
Leaves of Grass
Orlando
The Waste Land T.S. Eliot
The Lay of the Love and Death of Cornet Christoph Rilke
The Voices of Marrakesh Elias Canetti
A Coney Island of the Mind
Biotherm
Stone from Delphi Seamus Heaney
The Age of Innocence
Poetry of Sappho
South of Heaven Jim Thompson
Squarings Seamus Heaney
Tartuffe
The Structure of Rime Robert Duncan
Porgy & Bess
Selected Poems Herman Melville
Sampler Emily Dickenson
The Moonstone
Journey Round My Room
Tono Bungay
A Delicate Balance
Mrs. Bridge
The Sundial Shirley Jackson
Animal Farm
The Day of the Locust
The Nachman Stories
Thomas Jefferson's Paris Walks Diana Ketcham
>36 dlphcoracl: I agree on the Rilke. You can see that it was my #6, just outside of the Top5 list I shared earlier, and above many books more expensive. The Canetti is similarly next on the list.
Ulysses
Don Quixote
Leaves of Grass
Orlando
The Waste Land T.S. Eliot
The Lay of the Love and Death of Cornet Christoph Rilke
The Voices of Marrakesh Elias Canetti
A Coney Island of the Mind
Biotherm
Stone from Delphi Seamus Heaney
The Age of Innocence
Poetry of Sappho
South of Heaven Jim Thompson
Squarings Seamus Heaney
Tartuffe
The Structure of Rime Robert Duncan
Porgy & Bess
Selected Poems Herman Melville
Sampler Emily Dickenson
The Moonstone
Journey Round My Room
Tono Bungay
A Delicate Balance
Mrs. Bridge
The Sundial Shirley Jackson
Animal Farm
The Day of the Locust
The Nachman Stories
Thomas Jefferson's Paris Walks Diana Ketcham
38dlphcoracl
>37 jveezer:
One quibble with regard to your extensive list above. >33 elladan0891: specifically asked about AFFORDABLE Arion Press books, the "entry level" books that represent good value and are fairly priced. Ulysses, Don Q, etc., are not the books >33 elladan0891: is looking to start his AP collection with :-) .
One quibble with regard to your extensive list above. >33 elladan0891: specifically asked about AFFORDABLE Arion Press books, the "entry level" books that represent good value and are fairly priced. Ulysses, Don Q, etc., are not the books >33 elladan0891: is looking to start his AP collection with :-) .
39jveezer
>37 jveezer:: Right, I get it. The reason I posted the whole list is to illustrate that the whole "value" argument is relative and subject to nuances specific to each person. The top 5 are more pertinent to the original subject of the post; the rest of the list maybe more relevant to elladan0891.
Not to beat a dead horse, but the problem with AP's pricing model is that if you are not a subscriber, then both the one deluxe and the two standard offerings each year are very pricey. And in my opinion, the standard offerings prices are usually more out of whack for the value you get. That gets mitigated somewhat by the 30% subscriber discount and sometimes by aftermarket pricing...I might not have bought some of the deluxe offerings without my subscriber discount but I might still think they were "worth it"; I might still buy a standard edition at the subscriber price because I love the work but I might still feel it was overpriced when I look at what else I could get for my $420 from other presses.
The biggest "value" on my list would be the Rilke at $200 from Powell's Rare Book Room a year or so ago. And it's the only one I didn't get directly from AP. While I've seen a fair amount of AP books on the secondary market (Moe's in Berkeley almost always seems to have some), the prices I have seen are not much better than the price that could have been obtained directly from the press.
Finally, the other thing to consider is no other private press is publishing any of these prose works, and few of the poetry works. From that perspective, maybe AP's prices are justified.
Not to beat a dead horse, but the problem with AP's pricing model is that if you are not a subscriber, then both the one deluxe and the two standard offerings each year are very pricey. And in my opinion, the standard offerings prices are usually more out of whack for the value you get. That gets mitigated somewhat by the 30% subscriber discount and sometimes by aftermarket pricing...I might not have bought some of the deluxe offerings without my subscriber discount but I might still think they were "worth it"; I might still buy a standard edition at the subscriber price because I love the work but I might still feel it was overpriced when I look at what else I could get for my $420 from other presses.
The biggest "value" on my list would be the Rilke at $200 from Powell's Rare Book Room a year or so ago. And it's the only one I didn't get directly from AP. While I've seen a fair amount of AP books on the secondary market (Moe's in Berkeley almost always seems to have some), the prices I have seen are not much better than the price that could have been obtained directly from the press.
Finally, the other thing to consider is no other private press is publishing any of these prose works, and few of the poetry works. From that perspective, maybe AP's prices are justified.
40dlphcoracl
>39 jveezer:
The question of cost with regard to Arion Press books is, for me, relative and rarely absolute. Since I am not a subscriber, their two standard offerings usually would cost somewhere between $700 to $1,000 as judged by their pricing over the past three years. The question then becomes: what does $700 to $1,000 purchase from other private press publishers?
The answer: a helluva lot, and this is where purchasing Arion Press books becomes problematic.
For comparison purposes, let's consider some recent private press books published in the last 3-4 years:
1. The Story of the Fisherman (from the Arabian Nights), Foolscap Press (2015). $775.
2. The Ingoldsby Legends: A Gallimaufry, Barbarian Press (2015). Deluxe state C$775 = $580 USD.
3. Venice by John Craig (with 80 of his wood-engravings), Whittington Press (2016). The "B" edition,
i.e., semi-deluxe, is in the $700 to $750 price range IIRC.
4.The Diary of a Dead Officer by Arthur Graeme West, with original linocuts by John Abell (stunning!),
Old Stile Press (2014). 295 GBP = approx. $480 USD in 2014.
5. Trans-Siberian Prosody and Little Jeanne from France by Blaise Cendars, Old Stile Press (2015).
295 GBP = approx $450 USD at time of publication.
6. Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll with original illustrations by Charles Sandwyk, Folio Society
Limited Edition (2015). $865.
If you examine these publications carefully it will become apparent why buying a new Arion Press release is no longer the knee-jerk reflex it once was several decades ago. You do make an important point, however. These other private presses are all "Mom and Pop" affairs and they rarely (if ever) publish longer works of literature such as the AP 'Bouvard and Pecuchet' or 'The Leopard'. Additionally, their poetry collections are not as comprehensive and generous. I can occasionally justify "paying up" for an AP book in a book length I know these other private presses cannot publish because of time constraints and limited human resources.
Long winded point: buying Arion Press books in the new millennium requires selectivity and is a bit of
a balancing act in comparing what the AP prices will bring from other top-tier private press offerings.
The question of cost with regard to Arion Press books is, for me, relative and rarely absolute. Since I am not a subscriber, their two standard offerings usually would cost somewhere between $700 to $1,000 as judged by their pricing over the past three years. The question then becomes: what does $700 to $1,000 purchase from other private press publishers?
The answer: a helluva lot, and this is where purchasing Arion Press books becomes problematic.
For comparison purposes, let's consider some recent private press books published in the last 3-4 years:
1. The Story of the Fisherman (from the Arabian Nights), Foolscap Press (2015). $775.
2. The Ingoldsby Legends: A Gallimaufry, Barbarian Press (2015). Deluxe state C$775 = $580 USD.
3. Venice by John Craig (with 80 of his wood-engravings), Whittington Press (2016). The "B" edition,
i.e., semi-deluxe, is in the $700 to $750 price range IIRC.
4.The Diary of a Dead Officer by Arthur Graeme West, with original linocuts by John Abell (stunning!),
Old Stile Press (2014). 295 GBP = approx. $480 USD in 2014.
5. Trans-Siberian Prosody and Little Jeanne from France by Blaise Cendars, Old Stile Press (2015).
295 GBP = approx $450 USD at time of publication.
6. Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll with original illustrations by Charles Sandwyk, Folio Society
Limited Edition (2015). $865.
If you examine these publications carefully it will become apparent why buying a new Arion Press release is no longer the knee-jerk reflex it once was several decades ago. You do make an important point, however. These other private presses are all "Mom and Pop" affairs and they rarely (if ever) publish longer works of literature such as the AP 'Bouvard and Pecuchet' or 'The Leopard'. Additionally, their poetry collections are not as comprehensive and generous. I can occasionally justify "paying up" for an AP book in a book length I know these other private presses cannot publish because of time constraints and limited human resources.
Long winded point: buying Arion Press books in the new millennium requires selectivity and is a bit of
a balancing act in comparing what the AP prices will bring from other top-tier private press offerings.
42jveezer
>39 jveezer: Obviously it's not obvious from my posts that I totally agree with you as well. ;)
The Barbarian Press Pericles would be above all of those books (except maybe Ulysses, I might throw myself in the fire with both of them if I had to choose). Not a cheap book either but their smaller books are usually within that window of the AP standard editions, and all delightful.
I would add the Salvage Press. Jamie's book Maldon (E$240) is amazing. All of the books I've seen from the Press at CODEX have been amazing. (And CODEX is a great place to get an idea of the variety of books you can get for your private press $$)
The Barbarian Press Pericles would be above all of those books (except maybe Ulysses, I might throw myself in the fire with both of them if I had to choose). Not a cheap book either but their smaller books are usually within that window of the AP standard editions, and all delightful.
I would add the Salvage Press. Jamie's book Maldon (E$240) is amazing. All of the books I've seen from the Press at CODEX have been amazing. (And CODEX is a great place to get an idea of the variety of books you can get for your private press $$)
43elladan0891
>34 busywine: >36 dlphcoracl:
Thank you! Some research is in order now, and thankfully there are several titles in your lists that sound interesting to me. Now onto Chris's blog to check the pictures (I don't understand why Arion doesn't bother presenting their books on their website - the luck of pictures is simply puzzling) and then research pricing
Thank you! Some research is in order now, and thankfully there are several titles in your lists that sound interesting to me. Now onto Chris's blog to check the pictures (I don't understand why Arion doesn't bother presenting their books on their website - the luck of pictures is simply puzzling) and then research pricing
44astropi
42: Ah yes, the marvelous Barbarian Press Pericles... I realize that I'm unlikely to ever own that book. If I did, I would probably want more like that, but there are none. So I guess what I'm saying is that we all need to band together and produce "The Greatest Shakespeare Library Ever Published" :)
Who has a letterpress I can borrow??
Who has a letterpress I can borrow??
45elladan0891
So I narrowed it down to a few titles, namely:
The Silverado Squatters - love the unusual cork binding, interested in the story (which I'm sure I will like)
The Voices of Marrakesh - the binding doesn't scream quality, at least from the pictures, and I'm a bit disappointed with the black and white photos, as colors are so important in perception of Morocco, but I really like the non-photographic illustrations, including the image on the boards; I love Morocco and Marrakesh in particular, so would be glad to get a nice book about this very special place; haven't read the Canetti yet
The Moonstone - looks like it will be a pleasure to read, wonderful illustrations, nice paper and typeset
The Leopard - a classy production, wish it was a bit cheaper
The Lay of the Love and Death of Cornet Christoph Rilke
I'll start keeping an eye on the secondary market.
Thank you again.
The Silverado Squatters - love the unusual cork binding, interested in the story (which I'm sure I will like)
The Voices of Marrakesh - the binding doesn't scream quality, at least from the pictures, and I'm a bit disappointed with the black and white photos, as colors are so important in perception of Morocco, but I really like the non-photographic illustrations, including the image on the boards; I love Morocco and Marrakesh in particular, so would be glad to get a nice book about this very special place; haven't read the Canetti yet
The Moonstone - looks like it will be a pleasure to read, wonderful illustrations, nice paper and typeset
The Leopard - a classy production, wish it was a bit cheaper
The Lay of the Love and Death of Cornet Christoph Rilke
I'll start keeping an eye on the secondary market.
Thank you again.
46johnaba
>45 elladan0891:
I would keep an eye out for auctions to acquire your Arion Press collection. You can get some of these under the radar Arion books very cheap relative to the original price. Yesterday, there was a PBA galleries auction where a fine copy of Silverado Squatters sold for $200-$250. I purchased my copy of Marrakesh through auction for $216.
I would keep an eye out for auctions to acquire your Arion Press collection. You can get some of these under the radar Arion books very cheap relative to the original price. Yesterday, there was a PBA galleries auction where a fine copy of Silverado Squatters sold for $200-$250. I purchased my copy of Marrakesh through auction for $216.
47dlphcoracl
>42 jveezer:
We certainly see eye-to-eye regarding Jamie Murphy's The Salvage Press and I own a copy of 'Maldon' as well. I did not include it in my comments because his publishing has been so infrequent and sporadic over the past several years.
That said, he should be releasing a book he has worked on intermittently for the past three years entitled 'Winter', a collection of WW I poetry from 14 Irish poets. It has superb wood-engraved illustrations from Irish artist David Rooney and it is being published in an ultra-small limitation of 66 copies, 40 standard and 26 deluxe. His website shows that only 1 copy remains for purchase. If you are as impressed with 'Maldon' as I, I would recommend that you snap up the last remaining copy as this book appears to be at least as good as Maldon. Link below.
http://thesalvagepress.com/index.php/product/winter-pre-launch/
We certainly see eye-to-eye regarding Jamie Murphy's The Salvage Press and I own a copy of 'Maldon' as well. I did not include it in my comments because his publishing has been so infrequent and sporadic over the past several years.
That said, he should be releasing a book he has worked on intermittently for the past three years entitled 'Winter', a collection of WW I poetry from 14 Irish poets. It has superb wood-engraved illustrations from Irish artist David Rooney and it is being published in an ultra-small limitation of 66 copies, 40 standard and 26 deluxe. His website shows that only 1 copy remains for purchase. If you are as impressed with 'Maldon' as I, I would recommend that you snap up the last remaining copy as this book appears to be at least as good as Maldon. Link below.
http://thesalvagepress.com/index.php/product/winter-pre-launch/
48kdweber
>46 johnaba: The auction price doesn't really give a fair view of what your end cost will be. I've bought books from PBA before and my final costs after the buyer's premium, sales tax, shipping and handling was roughly 50% over the hammer cost; i.e. a $250 book cost me $375 dollars. In the end, the prices I paid were roughly equivalent to buying off of Abe.
49astropi
For "cheaper" Arion Press books, I don't think anything beats The Sundial
http://www.arionpress.com/catalog/091.htm
http://www.arionpress.com/catalog/091.htm
50kdweber
One has to wonder about a pricing model where limited editions of 300 copies are still available from the original publisher more than 20 years later. Did the Allen Press ever produce an edition that didn't sell out in less than a year? As much as I want to love the Arion Press, and I do, they just don't deliver under $1000 for a book. As Dlphcoracl so ably pointed out there are such better buys from other fine presses. If one includes used books from defunct fine presses the case is even more damaging.
51astropi
50: I know there were great fine presses that no longer exist. Also, there are some fine presses that produce amazing, but small publications -mostly poetry and short stories. However, what other fine press could produce a whole novel, such as Jackson's "The Sundial"? I don't know of any. The last "big" publication I saw that was letterpress and not from Arion was "Heart of Darkness" by Chester River Press. It was truly amazing, but I don't know of any recent non-Arion publications that are comparable. Perhaps Chris knows?
52kdweber
>51 astropi: Taschen is selling a signed (by Tom Wolfe) letterpress edition of The Electric Acid Kool-Aid Test with facsimile ephemera and photos by Lawrence Schiller and Ted Streshinsky for $350. Of course, being Taschen, the limitation is on the high side (1968 copies) but I bet they sell out in less than a year. But for the most part, you're right, Arion Press is one of the few (if not only) fine press currently producing longer works and I give them kudos for that.
I bought the AP "The Sundial" on sale from the Arion Press but it still cost $450 after taxes, shipping & handling. One might expect a slipcase to protect the book for that price. One would be wrong. I enjoyed the story and the edition but feel it's worth $350 at most. Meanwhile, my Chester River Press "Heart of Darkness" (150 copies) cost me $375 on sale and is a much more impressive volume. Something ain't (sic) right here.
I bought the AP "The Sundial" on sale from the Arion Press but it still cost $450 after taxes, shipping & handling. One might expect a slipcase to protect the book for that price. One would be wrong. I enjoyed the story and the edition but feel it's worth $350 at most. Meanwhile, my Chester River Press "Heart of Darkness" (150 copies) cost me $375 on sale and is a much more impressive volume. Something ain't (sic) right here.
53ultrarightist
>52 kdweber: I think that Chester River Press underpriced its Heart of Darkness. The book is easily in the top 10 of fine/private press books of the 21st century.
54astropi
52: That's really cool (hehe :)
But, a major bummer is that the book is abridged. How much, I don't know? Just a little? Half? I hate it when they don't provide details...
But, a major bummer is that the book is abridged. How much, I don't know? Just a little? Half? I hate it when they don't provide details...
55Django6924
I came across this thread rather late, but found it very interesting.
I am very much an admirer of what Arion Press is trying to do, and find their production quality usually admirable, but, as I have said elsewhere, I am usually disappointed in the design of their books and nearly always disappointed in the illustrations (but I am willing to admit that appreciation of illustrations is much more subjective than other factors in book design).
That said, I am very surprised that among the recommendations above, no one mentioned the AP's edition of Henry Roth's Call it Sleep. This is a very important American literary work which I discovered in the 1960s when The American Scholar called it one of the unjustly neglected works of the century. It was very hard back then to find a copy of it in any library and not at all in bookstores until a paperback version was printed (my copy of which long ago disintegrated). Imagine my surprise when Arion published a fine press edition in the 1990s, beautifully illustrated with contemporary photographs, limited to just 300 copies, and, amazingly, signed by the author himself!
I think I paid $600 for it, and consider it to be the bargain among the Arion Press books I own.
I am very much an admirer of what Arion Press is trying to do, and find their production quality usually admirable, but, as I have said elsewhere, I am usually disappointed in the design of their books and nearly always disappointed in the illustrations (but I am willing to admit that appreciation of illustrations is much more subjective than other factors in book design).
That said, I am very surprised that among the recommendations above, no one mentioned the AP's edition of Henry Roth's Call it Sleep. This is a very important American literary work which I discovered in the 1960s when The American Scholar called it one of the unjustly neglected works of the century. It was very hard back then to find a copy of it in any library and not at all in bookstores until a paperback version was printed (my copy of which long ago disintegrated). Imagine my surprise when Arion published a fine press edition in the 1990s, beautifully illustrated with contemporary photographs, limited to just 300 copies, and, amazingly, signed by the author himself!
I think I paid $600 for it, and consider it to be the bargain among the Arion Press books I own.
56dlphcoracl
Django6924:
FWIW, I heartily agree and own a copy myself.
For all of the negativity recently expressed on these boards with regard to the current incarnation of the Arion Press - justifiably so, I might add - wrought by their subscriber model and need to publish 1 or 2 very ordinary and overpriced books each year to counterbalance their blockbusters, e.g., the Lulu Plays, many of their earlier choices were well off of the beaten path and genuinely inspired selections. 'Call It Sleep' was one of them.
If you want to consider other bargains amongst the Arion Press bibliography, a very early publication 'The Lay of the Love and Death of Cornet Christoph Rilke by Rainer Maria Rilke easily goes to the top of this list. It can almost always be found for a few hundred dollars and the quality is astonishing.
Other bargain Arions I can recommend to you with regard to interesting literature at a great price:
1. Venus and Adonis by William Shakespeare.
2. The Voices of Marrakesh by Elias Cannetti
3. Tartuffe by Moliere
4. Kora in Hell by William Carlos Williams
5. Orlando by Virginia Woolf - not to everyone's taste but it sells well below its publication price.
6. The Memoirs of Benjamin Franklin
FWIW, I heartily agree and own a copy myself.
For all of the negativity recently expressed on these boards with regard to the current incarnation of the Arion Press - justifiably so, I might add - wrought by their subscriber model and need to publish 1 or 2 very ordinary and overpriced books each year to counterbalance their blockbusters, e.g., the Lulu Plays, many of their earlier choices were well off of the beaten path and genuinely inspired selections. 'Call It Sleep' was one of them.
If you want to consider other bargains amongst the Arion Press bibliography, a very early publication 'The Lay of the Love and Death of Cornet Christoph Rilke by Rainer Maria Rilke easily goes to the top of this list. It can almost always be found for a few hundred dollars and the quality is astonishing.
Other bargain Arions I can recommend to you with regard to interesting literature at a great price:
1. Venus and Adonis by William Shakespeare.
2. The Voices of Marrakesh by Elias Cannetti
3. Tartuffe by Moliere
4. Kora in Hell by William Carlos Williams
5. Orlando by Virginia Woolf - not to everyone's taste but it sells well below its publication price.
6. The Memoirs of Benjamin Franklin
57kdweber
>55 Django6924: It's still available, new, on the AP website for $700. I still think there's something wrong with your pricing model when you can't sell 300 copies in twenty years.
58astropi
57: Agreed. I've always wondered how Arion can justify continually raising the price of a book when it clearly does not sell?
59dlphcoracl
>58 astropi:
You are incorrect.
Arion Press has NOT raised the price of 'Call It Sleep'. When it was originally published in 1995 their price was $700 and that has not changed. One can argue that the book is mispriced since it has not sold out in over twenty years, but they do NOT raise the prices over the years.
You are incorrect.
Arion Press has NOT raised the price of 'Call It Sleep'. When it was originally published in 1995 their price was $700 and that has not changed. One can argue that the book is mispriced since it has not sold out in over twenty years, but they do NOT raise the prices over the years.
60astropi
59: Thanks for the note. So $700 in 1995 is some $1100 today. Seems to me it's priced a bit high. By the way, do they not raise the prices at all? Their edition of Biotherm by Frank O'Hara is currently priced at $2,750. If that was the original price, then that's over $5000 in today's value :O
61dlphcoracl
>60 astropi:
They have never raised their prices from the original offering price. However, your point regarding unrealistic pricing is well taken and certainly contributes to the availability of several books decades later. More telling, perhaps, is what that money will buy from other private presses.
P.S. To the credit of Arion Press, they still publish works of literature of substantial length that other private presses simply will not tackle.
They have never raised their prices from the original offering price. However, your point regarding unrealistic pricing is well taken and certainly contributes to the availability of several books decades later. More telling, perhaps, is what that money will buy from other private presses.
P.S. To the credit of Arion Press, they still publish works of literature of substantial length that other private presses simply will not tackle.
62astropi
61: For sure. Now, I'm sorry to say, but I think Arion Press could use some new guidance. I admit I'm no expert on letterpress business, but I would like to see AP steer towards more affordable letterpress publications NOT using "famous" modern artists (oh, hello Sappho!) and more genuinely pleasing (call it simpler if you want) illustrations.
63dlphcoracl
>62 astropi:
I suppose the Arion Press cannot please everyone because I would like them to publish nothing but high- end books, e.g., Sappho, Porgy and Bess, the Lulu Plays. I would like to see them abandon their subscriber model, which necessitates publication of several less expensive and uninspired books.
In reality, we should stop nitpicking Arion and celebrate what they do well, namely:
1. Their luxe books. These remain a league apart and the only other private press book to rival them (in recent memory) is the Barbarian Press 'Play of Pericles'.
2. Their publication and support of great poetry. No private press has done more in this regard. Arion Press consistently features the most important modern poets in editions with generous and well chosen samplings of their best work, spanning their entire careers.
I suppose the Arion Press cannot please everyone because I would like them to publish nothing but high- end books, e.g., Sappho, Porgy and Bess, the Lulu Plays. I would like to see them abandon their subscriber model, which necessitates publication of several less expensive and uninspired books.
In reality, we should stop nitpicking Arion and celebrate what they do well, namely:
1. Their luxe books. These remain a league apart and the only other private press book to rival them (in recent memory) is the Barbarian Press 'Play of Pericles'.
2. Their publication and support of great poetry. No private press has done more in this regard. Arion Press consistently features the most important modern poets in editions with generous and well chosen samplings of their best work, spanning their entire careers.
64astropi
63: I don't think I'm "nitpicking", this is a genuine full-blown complaint. I could be mistaken, but I really can't see the Arion Press surviving for decades to come with such high prices and arguably inappropriate artists. Furthermore, I thought ALL Arion books are high-end. A good example of the books Arion should publish in my opinion are "The Sundial". This doesn't mean they can't have other editions which are arguably more luxurious and expensive, but very few people will purchase those in general, as is evident by books that have not sold out in decades. In fact, take a look at their last 29 publications (80-108). How many sold out? ONE. And arguably because it was featured on PBS. Although to be fair, Leaves of Grass is magnificent and deserved to sell regardless. On the other hand, $1200 for poetry of Elizabeth Bishop? I'll pass. If it was in the $400 range, I think people would be interested. I'm guessing the Elizabeth Bishop will be another volume that will collect dust for decades, if Arion survives for decades more.
I do agree that their subscriber model is very outdated. Even if they offered everyone a 30% discount, at $840 I still can't see Elizabeth Bishop sell out. Also, the Folio Society published the complete works of Shakespeare in letterpress, as well as the wonderful Rupert Brooke. Brooke was about $300 and full of gorgeous illustrations.
I do agree that their subscriber model is very outdated. Even if they offered everyone a 30% discount, at $840 I still can't see Elizabeth Bishop sell out. Also, the Folio Society published the complete works of Shakespeare in letterpress, as well as the wonderful Rupert Brooke. Brooke was about $300 and full of gorgeous illustrations.
65ultrarightist
>64 astropi: I wonder how long until Andrew Hoyem retires. I believe he owns AP as sole proprietor. Will the press go to his heirs, or will he sell to someone in the industry who has a new vision for the press?
66kdweber
>63 dlphcoracl: "Their publication and support of great poetry."
Well the AP's first book was Andrew Hoyem's Picture/Poems.
Well the AP's first book was Andrew Hoyem's Picture/Poems.
67astropi
66: I'd add that the first book had a price of $25. In today's dollars, that's about $110. Very reasonable for an unknown poet. Now, had they published a signed edition of Frost, sure, that could easily go for hundreds and it would be worth it, but I think such poetry books are exceptions. Sappho, that could have been amazing, but sadly a terrible (in my opinion) choice of art, coupled with $1750 for the book. Not cool.
68ultrarightist
>68 ultrarightist: I concur. The illustrations are execrable. Irrespective of price, they actually ruin the book for me, far outweighing the beautiful typography and always excellent pressmanship.
69kdweber
>55 Django6924: I just picked up a used copy in fine condition for a more reasonable price. Very nice production values. It will be my first read of the new year.
70elladan0891
So I finally got my first Arion Press book: The Voices of Marrakesh. I'm very fond of Morocco and wanted to have a fine press book about this special place, so this was my #1 AP want. Because of the inflated prices, crappy website and general lack of interest in actually selling his books on the part of Andrew Hoyem, Arion Press was on the back burner for the last 2 years since the posts above. But when The Voices came up for only $196 + $4 shipping I jumped on it, even though it was missing the envelope. The book itself is absolutely pristine, and the envelope looks very flimsy in pictures anyway, so I don't think I'm missing much, will order a custom slipcase for it.
I love the etchings. I expected to like them based on photos on booksandvines, but they are even better in real life. Have mixed feelings about photography - on one hand, I think that b&w photography is a wrong medium to represent Morocco (colors are too important to miss them!). On the other, I'm happy to have historic photos from almost the time of the narrative. I'd also prefer more textured paper, but I'm guessing it was selected for reproduction of photographs. It might sound like I'm criticizing this edition, but actually I'm very happy with the book overall. It works as a package, and I really like it.
My new AP target #1: The Silverado Squatters.
Also planning to acquire: The Moonstone, The Leopard, Pedro Paramo, Call It Sleep, The Day of the Locust, Paris Walks, Captivity Narrative of Hannah Duston, and The Lay of the Love and Death of Cornet Christoph Rilke.
Also, The Alienist, The Price, and American Buffalo to the bottom of my wishlist - these 3 look like lesser productions than the above. If anyone thinks otherwise, please shout!
This will be a slow process unless Arion Press changes their business model, as I will have to wait until these titles show up on the secondary market at reasonable prices. As an example, I really like what I see in booksandvines' review of Pedro Paramo, but... $850? For a book of only 150 pages and with given quality of materials? Mold-made, not handmade paper, very regular-looking cloth, etc.? No, thanks. I can buy 2 Letterpress Shakespeares for $660 on current FS sale. Or leather and cork-bound Theseus direct from Yolla Bolly Press, etc.
Anyway, I really like my Voices of Marrakesh for $200, and will keep an eye out for more AP books.
I love the etchings. I expected to like them based on photos on booksandvines, but they are even better in real life. Have mixed feelings about photography - on one hand, I think that b&w photography is a wrong medium to represent Morocco (colors are too important to miss them!). On the other, I'm happy to have historic photos from almost the time of the narrative. I'd also prefer more textured paper, but I'm guessing it was selected for reproduction of photographs. It might sound like I'm criticizing this edition, but actually I'm very happy with the book overall. It works as a package, and I really like it.
My new AP target #1: The Silverado Squatters.
Also planning to acquire: The Moonstone, The Leopard, Pedro Paramo, Call It Sleep, The Day of the Locust, Paris Walks, Captivity Narrative of Hannah Duston, and The Lay of the Love and Death of Cornet Christoph Rilke.
Also, The Alienist, The Price, and American Buffalo to the bottom of my wishlist - these 3 look like lesser productions than the above. If anyone thinks otherwise, please shout!
This will be a slow process unless Arion Press changes their business model, as I will have to wait until these titles show up on the secondary market at reasonable prices. As an example, I really like what I see in booksandvines' review of Pedro Paramo, but... $850? For a book of only 150 pages and with given quality of materials? Mold-made, not handmade paper, very regular-looking cloth, etc.? No, thanks. I can buy 2 Letterpress Shakespeares for $660 on current FS sale. Or leather and cork-bound Theseus direct from Yolla Bolly Press, etc.
Anyway, I really like my Voices of Marrakesh for $200, and will keep an eye out for more AP books.
71Sorion
>70 elladan0891: “Because of the inflated prices, crappy website and general lack of interest in actually selling his books on the part of Andrew Hoyem”
That cracked me up. I’m glad you were able to find this at a price that reflected value.
That cracked me up. I’m glad you were able to find this at a price that reflected value.
72kdweber
>70 elladan0891: You are correct that The Alienist, The Price, and American Buffalo have lesser production values but they are still very nice books and much more reasonably priced. It took me a long time to find The Silverado Squatters at a good price but I didn't have any trouble with Call It Sleep. Paris Walks is still on my wish list but I can't see buying The Moonstone when the LEC edition can be had for a fraction of the price. I highly recommend the Yolla Bolly Theseus. You got a good price for the Voices of Marrakesh, congrats.
73Glacierman
Don't own a single AP book, but I do have the prospectuses for the first eleven titles. Of them, the only ones I would be willing to purchase is Moby Dick and The Maltese Falcon, although Flatland is intriguing.
74dlphcoracl
>73 Glacierman::
If those are the only Arion Press books of interest to you I believe you are missing the boat. Look a bit more carefully at the books published before they instituted their current member subscription model, roughly from 1975 to 2003. There are many gems amongst this group that can be found at very reasonable prices.
If those are the only Arion Press books of interest to you I believe you are missing the boat. Look a bit more carefully at the books published before they instituted their current member subscription model, roughly from 1975 to 2003. There are many gems amongst this group that can be found at very reasonable prices.
75Glacierman
>74 dlphcoracl: Well, now here we run into a little sticking point: "reasonable" does not always equate to "affordable to me." *grin*
Also, if the contents are of little or no interest to me, then I have no cause to purchase it, regardless of its technical merits (printing, design, binding, etc.).
To be honest, I long ago turned away from AP due to what I considered insane prices. This translates into, "No way in H___ could I ever afford THAT!" I still have that bias. I have those early prospectuses because they were sent to me at the library where I worked during that time. Yes, they did/do excellent work and I was/am impressed, but the prices!
Maybe someday......
Also, if the contents are of little or no interest to me, then I have no cause to purchase it, regardless of its technical merits (printing, design, binding, etc.).
To be honest, I long ago turned away from AP due to what I considered insane prices. This translates into, "No way in H___ could I ever afford THAT!" I still have that bias. I have those early prospectuses because they were sent to me at the library where I worked during that time. Yes, they did/do excellent work and I was/am impressed, but the prices!
Maybe someday......
76gmacaree
>75 Glacierman: I've had reasonable luck getting my few Arions for 30-50% of their list price. Most of them are well out of reasonable range new, and subscribing isn't an option because of how many ... let's be uncharitable and call them "duds" they turn out.
