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1swizzlestick
I was told that a Great American Epic has not be written. Is this true? No American author has written an epic tale?
3thorold
One hundred years of solitude ?
Omeros ?
East of Eden ?
...I suppose it depends on what you mean by "American" and by "epic" - they are both pretty flexible terms.
Omeros ?
East of Eden ?
...I suppose it depends on what you mean by "American" and by "epic" - they are both pretty flexible terms.
4skoobdo
The website,
http://www.legendsofamerica.com
covers the epic stories of USA.
Books on The Old West, Native Indians, American Civil War and etc are many epic stories of the United States of America. Are we are correct to mention these moments of the past in America as "epic" ?
http://www.legendsofamerica.com
covers the epic stories of USA.
Books on The Old West, Native Indians, American Civil War and etc are many epic stories of the United States of America. Are we are correct to mention these moments of the past in America as "epic" ?
5swizzlestick
#3 by american i mean the work can be classified as belonging to America like the Odessy is greek or Don Quixote is spanish. By epic i mean the literary term "epic" which is a classification of a type of literature. I have no idea if i am right that there is no definitive American Epic or whether that even applies anymore. this is just a passing curiusity that i am trying to satisfy before i bring it up in everyday conversation. i am hoping that my fellow LTers can educate me before i open my mouth and insert my foot. thanks for the replys guys!
6swizzlestick
#3 by american i mean the work can be classified as belonging to America like the Odessy is greek or Don Quixote is spanish. By epic i mean the literary term "epic" which is a classification of a type of literature. I have no idea if i am right that there is no definitive American Epic or whether that even applies anymore. this is just a passing curiusity that i am trying to satisfy before i bring it up in everyday conversation. i am hoping that my fellow LTers can educate me before i open my mouth and insert my foot. thanks for the replys guys!
7skoobdo
One of the american epic novels is "Gone With The Wind" by Margaret Mitchell .The American Civil War was used a back drop of the novel.
8thorold
Swizzlestick - re America: are we talking about the USA or about the whole of the Americas? That was why I mentioned Walcott - from the Caribbean - and Gabriel Garcia Marquez - from Colombia.
An epic is usually some sort of narrative involving a hero figure and important historical events, usually events of national significance. But you'll also find people using the term for any very long novel, film, or poem, irrespective of its subject. And modern writers have often played around with the notions of "hero" and "significant events" - e.g. Omeros consciously refers to the Odyssey, but takes an island fisherman as its "hero". I'm sure you'll find people who will argue that Moby-Dick, Huckleberry Finn or Gone with the wind is the great American epic.
Maybe the point is that US literature is so diverse that there is no single national epic of the USA that everyone can agree on? I think you'd have to say the same thing for most other nations. The Greeks have Homer, the Portuguese have Camoes, the Germans (possibly) might agree on The Nibelungenlied, the Icelanders have their sagas, the Indians the Mahabharata, the Welsh have the Mabinogion, but I don't think there's a single text you could see as the British (or even English) founding epic.
An epic is usually some sort of narrative involving a hero figure and important historical events, usually events of national significance. But you'll also find people using the term for any very long novel, film, or poem, irrespective of its subject. And modern writers have often played around with the notions of "hero" and "significant events" - e.g. Omeros consciously refers to the Odyssey, but takes an island fisherman as its "hero". I'm sure you'll find people who will argue that Moby-Dick, Huckleberry Finn or Gone with the wind is the great American epic.
Maybe the point is that US literature is so diverse that there is no single national epic of the USA that everyone can agree on? I think you'd have to say the same thing for most other nations. The Greeks have Homer, the Portuguese have Camoes, the Germans (possibly) might agree on The Nibelungenlied, the Icelanders have their sagas, the Indians the Mahabharata, the Welsh have the Mabinogion, but I don't think there's a single text you could see as the British (or even English) founding epic.
9swizzlestick
I was refering the USA and my vague writing on that point can be attributed cultural projection, my thinking that everyone simply knows USA when say I America. On that point I apologize. The term "Epic" that i am refering to is the noun and not the adjective. As such, it has very specific conditions that must be met for a work to qualify as an "Epic" or so my college led me to beleive. The proffesor ran throught the requirements and would dismiss all US. authored books that we could throw at her, some of those already listed here. Was she some crackpot on her high-horse? Possible. I don't know, hence this thread. I will try and find my notes or else find the requirements online so that everyone may peruse them and offer their thoughts. Wish me luck on finding the notes, i was not the most organized student.
BTW, Paradise Lost is the British Epic.
BTW, Paradise Lost is the British Epic.
10MarianV
America is really too big for one epic novel that would cover the whole country. James Michener tried with his "epics" of various locations Centennial & Texas
Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove is considered an epic western.
The covered wagon ipopular in the 1930's is an epic of the westward journey to settle Oregon & California
Raintree county by Ross Lockridge is considered an epic of the early mid-west.
Gone with the wind is an epic of the Civil War & reconstruction in the south.
Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove is considered an epic western.
The covered wagon ipopular in the 1930's is an epic of the westward journey to settle Oregon & California
Raintree county by Ross Lockridge is considered an epic of the early mid-west.
Gone with the wind is an epic of the Civil War & reconstruction in the south.
11thorold
>BTW, Paradise Lost is the British Epic.
No, I don't think you get away with that :-)
For one thing, Milton was English, England and Scotland were separate countries at the time, and there's no sense at all that Milton is dealing with specifically British, or even English, issues anyway. "Justifying the ways of God to man" goes a bit beyond national foundation myths, even if it's done in a very English protestant way.
So it could be a British epic, in the sense that it was written by someone living in the British isles, but that's it.
And there are all sorts of other epics from Britain - what about Beowulf, The Faerie Queene, Le morte d'Arthur, ... right down to The Hobbit?
No, I don't think you get away with that :-)
For one thing, Milton was English, England and Scotland were separate countries at the time, and there's no sense at all that Milton is dealing with specifically British, or even English, issues anyway. "Justifying the ways of God to man" goes a bit beyond national foundation myths, even if it's done in a very English protestant way.
So it could be a British epic, in the sense that it was written by someone living in the British isles, but that's it.
And there are all sorts of other epics from Britain - what about Beowulf, The Faerie Queene, Le morte d'Arthur, ... right down to The Hobbit?
12billymcbrie
I've always wanted to write the Great American Novel, but as I'm British I imagine this would piss a lot of Americans off. ;)
13thorold
Didn't Philip Roth write The Great American Novel?
14libraryrobin
The Awakening Land Trilogy by Conrad Richter
16usnmm2
The USA triogy by John Dos Passos
The 42nd Parallel: Volume One of the U.S.A. Trilogy
1919: Volume Two of the U.S.A. Trilogy
The Big Money: Volume Three of the U.S.A. Trilogy
Also Gore Vidal's 'Narratives of Empire' titles
Burr, Lincoln, 1876, "Empire", Hollywood, Washinton D.C. and "The Golden Age".
The 42nd Parallel: Volume One of the U.S.A. Trilogy
1919: Volume Two of the U.S.A. Trilogy
The Big Money: Volume Three of the U.S.A. Trilogy
Also Gore Vidal's 'Narratives of Empire' titles
Burr, Lincoln, 1876, "Empire", Hollywood, Washinton D.C. and "The Golden Age".
17skoobdo
A novel that most perfectly represents the spirit of life in the United States at the times of its writing.
It is presumed to be written by an American citizen, who was native born or naturalised who is well versed in the culture,behavor and outlook of an American life. This kind of novel have a honor to be labelled as " The Great American ' Epic' Novel" for its cultural identity.Authors in the past such as Nathaniel Hawthorne, Mark Twain,John Steinbeck,Ernest Hemingway,J D Salinger,Jack Kerouac deserved to be called the greatest American writers. John Updike and Norman Mailer were examples of the best writers in the 21st Century and will like to see and read such novels in the future,
It is presumed to be written by an American citizen, who was native born or naturalised who is well versed in the culture,behavor and outlook of an American life. This kind of novel have a honor to be labelled as " The Great American ' Epic' Novel" for its cultural identity.Authors in the past such as Nathaniel Hawthorne, Mark Twain,John Steinbeck,Ernest Hemingway,J D Salinger,Jack Kerouac deserved to be called the greatest American writers. John Updike and Norman Mailer were examples of the best writers in the 21st Century and will like to see and read such novels in the future,
18TomWaitsTables
the great american epic? not "novel"? tom paine's Common Sense. it's what got the revolution started, after all.
"Here’s this guy, essentially off the boat, who picks up on the spirit of America quickly, and he takes that pen of his and figures out how he’s gonna grab hold of that American spirit and turn it in a radical, democratic direction to make a new nation... he took what he recognized in American life, and he inscribes it into the meaning of America, that the democratic impulse would be a model to the world... In terms of the democratic impulse – which never ceased in America – (is that) in every generation progressive movements, from radical to liberal, reached back to the American Revolution... The words they reclaimed were Thomas Paine’s...."
"Here’s this guy, essentially off the boat, who picks up on the spirit of America quickly, and he takes that pen of his and figures out how he’s gonna grab hold of that American spirit and turn it in a radical, democratic direction to make a new nation... he took what he recognized in American life, and he inscribes it into the meaning of America, that the democratic impulse would be a model to the world... In terms of the democratic impulse – which never ceased in America – (is that) in every generation progressive movements, from radical to liberal, reached back to the American Revolution... The words they reclaimed were Thomas Paine’s...."
19ReadStreetDave
I'm with 16 -- I vote for the USA trilogy. Some years ago I read Ragtime by E.L. Doctorow. I enjoyed it, but someone suggested that it was a shadow of Dos Passos' trilogy. How true.
21TomWaitsTables
the epic of america by james t. adams ?
>19 ReadStreetDave:
you know who else thinks alike? mobs. conformists. fanatics. corporate zombies. "sane" people. and people who are being mind-controlled by alien god-kings bent on devouring the earth. by the by, thanks. i'd liked doctorow, but never considered passos. and i can assure you, none of my multiple-personalities think alike. oops. looks like someone just spilled coffee on my transmitter. gotta go.
>19 ReadStreetDave:
you know who else thinks alike? mobs. conformists. fanatics. corporate zombies. "sane" people. and people who are being mind-controlled by alien god-kings bent on devouring the earth. by the by, thanks. i'd liked doctorow, but never considered passos. and i can assure you, none of my multiple-personalities think alike. oops. looks like someone just spilled coffee on my transmitter. gotta go.
22usnmm2
21: destinyhascheatedme
Thamks for mentioning the epic of america. Never heard of it before, but looks interesting. ( I can hear my TBR shelf groaning 'oh no! not another one'.
Thamks for mentioning the epic of america. Never heard of it before, but looks interesting. ( I can hear my TBR shelf groaning 'oh no! not another one'.
23TomWaitsTables
heya. i've come across "TBR" a lot on LibraryThing. what does it stand for, officially? to be read? to be reviewed? to be recommended? tampa bay rays?
yeah, my shelves are overloaded as well. sometimes it seems more like a chore than a pleasure.
yeah, my shelves are overloaded as well. sometimes it seems more like a chore than a pleasure.
24jennieg
Generally, people mean To Be Read.
I like the idea of a Tampa Bay Rays list--so many possibilities.
I like the idea of a Tampa Bay Rays list--so many possibilities.
25TomWaitsTables
thanks, jay.
tampa bay rays? :)
tampa bay rays? :)
27TomWaitsTables
>26 allenb::
and, to be repeated. except we'll be moving out of california and into the midwest.
and, to be repeated. except we'll be moving out of california and into the midwest.
