Sci Fi for discerning intellects

I know I'm not the only one in this group with a taste for quality science fiction. There's darn little of it about these days and the "Golden Age" never truly existed. But let's not bury Caesar here, but praise him, celebrating the science fiction books, films and series that impart the sensawunda that makes the genre so unique and magical. The best of the best, the works that elevate the field and say something relevant about human consciousness.

Starting things off with a couple of pieces on Philip K. Dick's EXEGESIS:

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/20/philip-k-dick-sci-fi-philosopher...
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/21/philip-k-dick-sci-fi-philosopher...

Part III to come.

The sci-fi I've enjoyed is the plausible sci-fi that doesn't defy the known laws of physics or is set in the so-far-distant future that it has no connection to the here and now. The sci-fi that, as you read it, you find yourself thinking about the actual science behind the fiction.

I wonder if it's possible for ANY science fiction writer, no matter how gifted, to create a truly exotic, alien point of view. By definition, wouldn't such a character/civilization be so remote from our experiences and so beyond the limits of our meager imaginations that we wouldn't be able to empathize with them or have any grasp of what motivates them and makes them tick?

It's conceivable there are races where emotions are non-existent, moods or needs manifesting themselves with a particular taste, odor, or a sudden, explosive fart. What effect would true telepathy have on communication? Would a race of sentient jellyfish require a deity, a science, even a desire to understand the universe beyond the purple liquid comfort of their creche?

Ian, you've mentioned Paul Park's CELESTIS as a novel that succeeds at creating a credible alien locale and p.o.v. Is that correct?

But how alien are his aliens?

I'm thinking about one of my favorite sci fi scribes, Vernor Vinge. He envisions (for instance) a world populated by giant, intelligent "spiders"...yet those spiders exhibit greed, jealousy, suspicion, ambition. Indeed, his "aliens" often seem more human than some people I've come across in my travels.

Thoughts?

I thought that Bradbury's Martian chronicles were sufficiently alien to ring true to me, but hard to say, since I don't read much in this genre.

Again, the very first Martians portrayed in the book are a wife who senses the arrival of Earthmen, pines for them...and her husband who, acting out of jealousy, takes his weapon and goes out and slays the first men on Mars.

They seem pretty recognizably human to me.

(And I love that book, by the way. But it does make the mistake so many SF authors, great and small, fall prey to: anthropomorphizing alien races/characters. But is there any avoiding that pitfall?)

Hm, true... Really, I have not read enough in this genre to say but I would imagine it would be very hard to get into the head of a being that is sufficiently different than you to be believable. It would be quite a feat of imagination. At most, it seems aliens are just a series of stereotypes that are human but exaggerated.

#3 Coelestis has colonised aliens who use drugs and surgery to ape humans. But when one of them is removed from her drugs after a rebel attack, she gradually loses her superficial humanity. It's a deconstruction of identity as much as it is of humanity, and it's cleverly done.

A new look at the greatest SF film of all time:

http://www.dangerousminds.net/comments/kubricks_cover_story_the_double_narrative...

Though many of you have likely seen some of these, welcome to architecture, sci fi style:

http://weburbanist.com/2012/05/19/forgotten-tributes-25-monumental-relics-of-yug...

>9 CliffBurns: Cool sculptures. I'll have to go visit the former Yugoslavia someday!

Speaking of sci-fi architecture, I have to mention Robert A. Heinlein's short story 'And He Built a Crooked House' It's about an architect who designs a house using the geometry of theoretical math (shapes that can't exist in real space). Then there's a slight earthquake (it's in southern California) and the house collapses in on itself, becoming a kind of mobius strip (you exit the living room to enter... the living room). Fun story.

Dear Cliff #3,

I agree that most "aliens" in SF are just disguised Humans.
Thus I enjoy those Aliens which are only "observed" and the story revolves around our human reaction.

In another post I mentioned "From out of the Sun" by Arthur C. Clark. A short story about a possibly sentient "solar flair" as witnessed from a station on Mercury.

And of course The Black Cloud by Fred Hoyle

But surely, most SF writers, only used the Alien view point as a a tool to mirror humanity?

Yep, aliens as refracted mirrors of ourselves. Bipeds with latex foreheads who speak perfect English.

I'm looking forward to tackling CELESTIS. I've had it for ages (on your recommendation, Ian) but just haven't got around to it.

Further: I think "2001" (the movie more than the book) imparts a real sense of otherness.

We never see the aliens and their motivations remain unclear and enigmatic to the very end.

Cliff, I have the book - Spomenik. I also do occasional blog posts which feature retro-sf style architecture - like this one.

What was it about those Commies and weird architecture? When I think of the Ivans, I imagine boring, neo-Stalinist blocks, grey and uninspiring. Clearly, that wasn't always the case.

I'd kill to have that SPOMENIK book--and, yes, I recall your post, it was a good one.

Further on truly exotic civilizations, isn't that what the folks in Iain Banks' "Culture" series (especially in EXCESSION) are afraid of--an encounter with a truly unknown, unfathomable and inimical life form?

I think that the Hyperion Cantos is pretty intellectually stimulating. While most of the protagonists are human, the Shrike is a very striking "character" that has all sorts of symbolism. Dan Simmons has always put heavy literary references into his work as well, and Hyperion may be his most "literary"work.

I've never read Gene Wolfe, but most of the people who've read his work got a pretty good mental workout. He writes mostly fantasy, however.

I liked the first HYPERION novel but not the sequel. Simmons, like a lot of writers out there with one eye on their bank account, won't say in one book what he can stretch into 2 or 3 or 8 (with his agent's complicity).

I tried to read his book on the war between the Greek gods (ILIUM) but it was truly silly and I never finished it. Simmons references really smart source material (Shakespeare, THE ILIAD, etc.) but his own work--other than HYPERION--rarely makes the jump beyond the mundane. Most of the time, his books are as forgettable as Jack McDevitt novels.

I just recalled that Ian had a smart piece on the legacy and promise of SF in one of his older posts. Here it is:

http://iansales.com/2012/05/21/science-fiction-is-dead-long-live-science-fiction...

#18 Nice rant Ian, I am looking forward to the completion of "Rocket Science". I hope you find some good stories within the parameters you set. I find that notion interesting.

I thought that Stephen Donaldson had a pretty good attempt at capturing alien otherness in his Gap series.

I'm just about to start The Calcutta Chromosome which I believe has some recommendations from the Snobs. I'm assuming this one is set on earth though...

A documentary on Philip K. Dick...from Argentina:

http://www.dangerousminds.net/comments/watch_this_philip_k._dick_-_the_penultima...

#19 Rocket Science was published in April and is available from here. A review in Guardian newspaper described it as "superb".

One of the most intellectually challenging science fiction writers I've read is Samuel Delany. Aliens rarely center stage in his books, but many of his science fiction novels (he also writes fantasy) deal with humans contending against races of creatures they perceive as completely alien.

His books can get pretty rarified (he's not above quoting Derrida at the beginnings of chapters) but mostly he loves to explore how culture evolves in response to different pressures and view point. One of my favorite books is Babel-17 which features a poet with a talent for languages who is recruited by the military to decrypt a strange radio code they believe is being used by alien spies to coordinate acts of sabotage. It is all really about how language shapes our perceptions of reality--how we define what we see by what we call things.

I admire Delany but I've never warmed to his work. Perhaps because the first book of his I tried to "crack" was DHALGREN. Huge mistake. But that was over 20 years ago, so perhaps it's time to revisit it (and the author's work).

#22--Congrats on the GUARDIAN review. That's a rag with some credibility, wot?

>24 CliffBurns: I think the most "accessible" Delany is Nova -- more of a straight adventure story. Dhalgren is a pretty rough introduction.

It's the only daily newspaper in the UK worth reading :-)

Remember "Iron Sky"?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-18173708

The NEW YORKER devotes a summer issue to science fiction:

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/toc/2012/06/04/toc_20120528

Iron Sky got a one-day showing in the UK. And I found out about it the day after. Bah.

Isn't it available on DVD yet? At least on that side of the pond.

In a few days, it will be. And I shall buy it.

Link us to that review, boy. I only hope the movie's more clever than the critics have let on...

This is a great thread. I have to agree on what's been said of Dan Simmons, though I really enjoyed The Terror. I am excited about the Heinlein short story, so thanks to >10 madpoet: for mentioning that.

I really like SF that approaches culture and society from disparate angles. A couple of recent titles would be The Unincorporated Man and The Unit. Brave New World could be considered one as well. While not really SF, Buckley's Boomsday leans in the direction I am thinking.

I'm not sure what to collectively call these types of books and have trouble finding others. Each seems to establish a fairly plausible alternative to some cultural tenet and run with it to the extreme. The "alternate reality" vein doesn't really fit the bill and while a few time travel titles do show "how things play out", they kind of fall short too.

Any chance someone here knows of others that fit this very muddy mold I've tried to describe?

I think the short stories of Robert Sheckley take contemporary conventions and ideas and run with them (usually in a satirical vein). Check out his collected tales, CITIZEN IN SPACE, UNTOUCHED BY HUMAN HANDS, etc. They're funny and Sheckley's jaded view of humanity is very attractive to this curmudgeon.

Three words: Kim. Stanley. Robinson.

http://www.strangehorizons.com/reviews/2012/06/2312_by_kim_sta.shtml

I'm not a big fan. Nothing he's written has really knocked my socks off. ICEHENGE was okay, I've liked some of his short stories but for the most part he doesn't turn my crank.

I read Icehenge. The mid-section dragged terribly, but the finale was brilliant. I found it very intelligent, just not very entertaining. The definition of a mixed bag.

Icehenge is a classic, the second-best sf novel formed from three linked novellas ever written. The Mars trilogy is a major undertaking to read, but worth the time it takes. Some of KSR's stories are superb - The Best of Kim Stanley Robinson is worth getting hold of.

Thank you for the quick recommendations. I will check them out.

Made it through the first MARS book by Robinson, but barely. Just not my thing. Lots of exposition, the book could have been cut in half. The "trilogy" could be pared down considerably, maybe reduced to a single book. But agents run the show these days and they make a helluva lot more money from a three-book deal than a stand alone sale.

The books were published in the first half of the 1990s, and I very much doubt filthy lucre was KSR's objective in writing such lengthy books - he's never struck me as that kind of writer. They're big books because he wanted to tell a big story. Also, he considers exposition just another form of narrative.

"Also, he considers exposition just another form of narrative."

This is madness to me.

My biggest complaints about SF authors are: their writing is often mediocre AND they think exposition can be rationalized.

And, Ian, writers have been working for "filthy lucre" since the time of Homer. Robinson is no exception. Whether their name is Dick or Asimov or Malzberg, they all do it for the money.

Writing for the money and making artistic decisions based on money are two different things. Stan Robinson has never struck me as a mercenary writer. Yes, there are a lot of crap genre writers, but Stan Robinson isn't one of them. Try some of his short fiction.

I did try his short fiction, the "Best of..." that came out a few years back, and it was hit and miss. His prose, his voice, just doesn't move or affect me. I find his writing bland and, yup, overly descriptive. His characters don't interest me and he takes no stylistic or aesthetic chances.

As with Gene Wolfe, I just fail to see the attraction.

I can't stand Wolfe's short fiction. I like some of his longer stuff, but his short stories rub me up completely the wrong way. But I do like Stan Robinson's stuff.

I hasten to add, I'm perfectly happy to concede K.S. Robinson's high standing in SF literature (and Wolfe's too).

I just don't see the attraction.

I recently finished The Years of Rice and Salt which I liked much better than either his Capital series or the Mars trilogy. I too found the exposition heavy. And of course reading the Mars Trilogy 20 years after it was written it was also out of date. My main problem with the Mars trilogy was the characters. They were all extremely unlikable and I really had no emotional investment in what happened to them particularly since the conflicts between them seemed rather contrived.
The characters in YoRaS, on the other hand, were much richer and believable, imbued with humanity rather than narcissistic self-absorption. My only caveats with the novel was that I felt it faded out at the end and I wish he hadn't attempted to write Chinese poetry.

I've not read The Years of Rice and Salt yet, though I bought it when it was published. Mind you, I've not read Galileo's Dream either. I did enjoy the Science in the Capitol trilogy, even though they got a bit didactic at times. Stan Robinson is one of sf's better prose stylist, but for that bizarre belief about exposition.

Aldiss can be better when wants to, but he doesn't seem to want to do that very often. Besides which, my favourite Aldiss is a novel is one of his 1950s potboilers, Equator. Paul Park and Gwyneth Jones are certainly up near the top of the list, likewise M John Harrison. Not sure who else I'd put on the list. Justina Robson, perhaps. Ursula K Le Guin.

Another writer guilty of chronic info-dumping (one of the worst offenders, in fact) is Greg Egan.

And if I hear one more SF geek explain away the lack of really great writers in the genre by saying "it's all about the ideas, not the writing", I'll cut their freakin' throat.

I've never really cottoned to Egan's fiction. I've read one of his novels and one of his collections and both left me cold. Yet lots of people whose opinion I respect tell me he's very good.

The SF writers I look out for these days:

Iain M. Banks
Vernor Vinge
Richard K. Morgan
John Varley
Peter Watts
Tony Daniel
Ian McDonald
Alastair Reynolds
Ken Macleod

...used to like Charles Stross's work but I've lost interest in him in the last while.

Other SF scribblers whose appeal mystifies me:

Ursula LeGuin
Robert Charles Wilson
Robert Sawyer (dreadful writer)
China Mieville
Connie Willis
Nancy Kress

47: I own The Years of Rice and Salt and was thinking of giving it a go someday. Your persuasive mini-review helps the idea along.

---

Speaking of Gene Wolfe, I picked up a copy of the first half of his Book of the New Sun at Goodwill (the references to "Spenserian allegory" and "Wagnerian mythology" intrigued me). Anyone read it?

And if you don't mind my further derailing the conversation, a chap recommended me Arthur C. Clarke's Childhood's End recently. How does he (Clarke, not the chap) chart on the "discerning intellect" scale?

Clarke is the best of the "Golden Age" writers. At least he had something of an "ear"; Asimov, Heinlein et al were pretty much tone deaf.

CHILDHOOD'S END is one of his finest novels--it's dated but a good look at the consequences of first contact.

RENDEZVOUS WITH RAMA and some of his other tomes bored the heck out of me but I think you'll find CE a good read.

Varley is long past his best. His last few novels have been YA and pretty forgettable. But his new one will change that. Morgan I find a bit one-trick. I've read Altered Carbon and Black Man, and I've had Broken Angels on the TBR for ages but have yet to get round to reading it. Banks, MacLeod and Reynolds I read their new books as soon as they're published.

I wrote a blog post a while ago about genre writers I don't like: http://iansales.com/2010/01/14/they-dont-work-for-me-books-and-authors-who-dont-...

Yeah, when Varley was at his best, he was something. STEEL BEACH is a masterpiece of the genre. But I agree with you on his YA stuff. It's like Heinlein warmed over (though, of course, much better written).

Top layer of my SF to-be-read pile:

Paul Park, CELESTIS
Vernor Vinge CHILDREN OF THE SKY
Hannu Rajaniemi THE QUANTUM THIEF
Paolo Bacigalupi THE WINDUP GIRL
Several books by Jack Womack

http://boingboing.net/2011/10/11/vernor-vinges-childr.html

Coelestis is superb. The Quantum Thief I thought was a bit over-hyped, and I've had problems reading The Wind Up Girl because it's unlikable book and racist.

Has anyone read Nick Harkaway? Would you recommend him?

52: Book of the New Sun.

I picked up near-complete set of these at the Goodwill a couple months back. I'm only missing the very last book. It even included Castle of the Otter, a collection of essays, definitions, and some of the backstory. The title is based on a humorous missprint of Citadel of the Autarch.

I liked the first book well enough. The language is above average. Wolfe does throw a fair amount of unfamiliar or made up words into the mix, but most of them are actually antiquated terms or at least based on an existing etymology. Usually I find the practice of calling something a weird name just for the sake of being weird to be tiresome. It works well enough in the context of story's setting though. It skirts the edge of feeling like the fantasy genre without putting me off. I have fond memories of reading Tolkien years ago, but was never able to stomach any of the derivatives I sampled. The "magical" items being futuristic technology or alien artifacts is just enough to save it — for me anyway.

Right now I'm halfway through the second book, The Claw of the Conciliator. I'm still enjoying it, but it's beginning to sit for longer spells between readings. Unless it gets really unbearable I plan on finishing out the series.

I have Harkaway's first book but haven't read it.

I don't think Ian cares for him though...

I couldn't get halfway through The Gone-away World. The Book of the New Sun, however, is a genre classic.

Ah, yes, Monsieur Harkaway is John le Carre's son. Now I remember.

Here's the GUARDIAN review of Harkaway's latest:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/feb/12/nick-harkaway-angelmaker-review

> 60: I struggled through the first two books of Book of the New Sun and i haven't read the others.

I think Harkaway's books sound "interesting"... but with a decent chance of collapsing into "nah, that didn't work, why did i ever think it would?" Bah, me and my prejudices

Thanks for the answers re: Wolfe and Clarke.

I've got to disagree with Cliff about Le Guin. I think she's a major writer who transcends the genre and should have the critical acclaim that people give to Lessing or Atwood. The Dispossessed is a classic, very few people could have written a novel about political philosophies and made it engrossing.

Again, totally willing to concede Ms. LeGuin's place in SF--like Atwood (and Lessing), I find her prose has little appeal to me. Dull, sometimes interminably so. I did like LATHE OF HEAVEN but felt it could have been pared down. All three authors have a habit of over-using passive verbs, which renders their work rather sterile and static (at least to me).

Philip K. Dick in the newest issue of HeadPress:

http://www.worldheadpress.com/ezine7/#/38/

I read some excerpts from Nick Harkaway's Gone Away World, and came away extremely unimpressed. One such snippet involved a character describing why ninjas are super silly. It read like a "let's try to be so wacky!" discussion on an Inuyasha fandom forum. Yech.

I read Book of the New Sun earlier this year, though, and I liked it a good deal. With those books, there's a great deal to infer - the narrator is a good deal detached, and not everything he's telling you is the absolute truth. To be honest, I'm not sure who knows the exact truth about that series besides Wolfe himself. His treatment of females leaves something to be desired, however - even if it is the narrator's POV making these observations, the fact does remain that the majority of the female characters are there to fall in love with the brooding protagonist, which made me roll my eyes a bit.

This one will find evidence of ancient cities, a star-faring culture a hundred million years older than ours...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18401248

Well, it COULD happen...

I'm just waiting for the Pluto mission.
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/newhorizons/main/index.html

More than half way there!

July, 2015 arrival date.

I'd better set my alarm.

How cyberpunk saved science fiction. By Paolo Bacigalupi:

http://www.wired.com/underwire/2012/06/pl_cyberpunk/

I was dragged back into an interest in SF by Snowcrash ....I saw it mentioned in "The Whole Earth Review" magazine. I was puzzled by the internet being eaten up at the time over speculation about the movie of Neuromancer.... with great cries of distress after it did come out. Quite like Prometheus.

73: My stepmother has a beautiful book about the making of Neuromancer. Apparently it was one of those very beautiful movies made out of very interesting books, but the beauty became the focus, and the interest dimmed.

On the lighter, check out this Cracked article:

http://www.cracked.com/article_19914_6-utterly-insane-innovations-history-was-su...

Heading up to Bloomington, MN tomorrow for CONvergence. Should be lots of fun. 4 days and nights of pure concentrated geekdom. Can't wait to hear the panel on sci fi criticism.

Geek out, chum.

There was no film of Neuromancer. The only Gibson to make it to the big screen was 'Johnny Mnemonic', starring Keanu Reeves. It's rubbish.

77: Huh. What was it? Oh wait, it was something called Mirrorsomething, maybe Mirrormask? That's the film I was thinking of. And I see I'm confusing Gibson with Gaiman. Whoops! Sorry! Not my genre...

Charles Stross gives advice on writing science fiction:

http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/free-turkey-city-lexicon-for-science-fictio...

Got Use of Weapons @ a recent sci fi con. Chomping at the bit to read it.

A pretty good list via iO9:

http://io9.com/5924625/10-science-fiction-novels-you-pretend-to-have-read-and-wh...

#77 The only Gibson to make it to the big screen was 'Johnny Mnemonic', starring Keanu Reeves. It's rubbish.

1) PISTOLS AT DAWN, SIR ;)

2) New Rose Hotel. (Which really is rubbish....)

81: I have read 3 of those, Dune, 1984 and Cryptonomicon. Enjoyed them all.
Started 2 others but could not get through Dhalgren or Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell.

No list which includes Foundation can be called "good".

Not by ANY stretch of the imagination.

How is Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell a science fiction novel? It's not even a rigorous fantasy novel.

86: Yeah, although it was a really interesting novel and I enjoyed it, I have trouble either putting it in the fantasy or the SF category. It's like a weird, semi-magical alternate history.

84: OK, not "good", but "adequate." It does have Foundation, but it also had Dhalgren, Infinite Jest, and Gravity's Rainbow.

Infinite Jest is science fiction? That seems even more tenuous than JS&MN.

I've probably met more serious sf readers than the average person has, and - while I've met several people who are PROUD of not having read the Old Masters (Heinlein and Asimov get mentioned....) - I don't believe that I've ever met a single person who has "pretended" to have read the 67-year-old Henderson.

(When would the question even come up?)

The thing about Heinlein is he didn't know a damn thing about training dogs, which in my mind is reason enough to let anyone go out of print.

Over in the sf group, Dhalgren seems to be the biggest sticking-point. It's clearly the best-written novel on the list, but they can't see that.

If they can't see it, maybe it's not clear. ;-)

In all seriousness, of the books on the list that I've read, I think Nineteen Eighty-Four is the best. And although I don't think Dune is particularly well written on the prose level, I think it's both an important book and an entertaining one.

Dune is pretty bad on the prose level. Where it truly excels is at world-building. Herbert's prose was much better in The Green Brain and The Santaroga Barrier (probably his best novel).

94: I enjoyed the world-building aspect of Dune, but I really, really loved God-Emperor of Dune It seemed plot was thrown out entirely and it become a philosophical novel in the best sense.

Have not read Dhalgren, but it's on the TBR list, along with Against the Day, JR, 2666, and a bazillion other things.

95: That's as far as I read, God Emperor of Dune, and it definitely worked much better for me than Dune Messiah or Children of Dune.

96: I see that volume as the dividing line between the first 3 novels and the last 3 novels.

I see that volume as the dividing line between the first 3 novels and the last 3 novels.

Huh: I got half-way through Children of Dune and swore off the series. The Dune series was one of the things that taught me that I don't HAVE to finish every series I start.

(And I'm very glad I learned this lesson long before the Brian Herbert "Dune" books.)

98: I agree with that assessment. I'd like to reread the Dune series again sometime ... I did get lost after God-Emperor of Dune, but I'm not really yearning to read the Brian Herbert stuff.

How about Kobo Abe's Inter Ice Age four or Ryu Mitsuse's Ten Billion Days & one hundred Billion Nights, could even add Thomas Pynchon's Gravity's Rainbow as it was nominated for the Nebula award in 1973 & had it won it may have blurred the distinction between literary fiction and science fiction as argued by James Patrick Kelly & John kessel in The Secret History of Science Fiction. Here is my post on that book if interested.

http://parrishlantern.blogspot.co.uk/2010/12/edited-by-james-patrick-kelly-john....

I am about 20 or so pages into Gravity's Rainbow, a real door stop of a book, and to me it reads like an amalgamation of Faulkner and Tom Robbins. It worries me in that it has the dark shadow foreboding aura of overdue library fines about it.

Redshirts by John Scalzi

102: that's his new one, right? I am not a sci fi person in general but I loved Old Man's War. I also think "whatever" is one of the best blogs on the Internet.

I thought Redshirts was a lot of fun and a quick read, but I don't think of it as great science fiction. That said, I bought a copy for myself and two more copies to give as gifts!

One for the Trekkies on your Christmas list.

And sci fi ideas created by hacks:

http://www.cracked.com/article_19949_the-6-most-important-sci-fi-ideas-were-inve...

Great article Kswolff, I had never heard of the obviously innovative novel before. I thought Heinlein was the first to accurately describe weightlessness etc.

Wow. Someone from Cracked.com has actually read Edison's Conquest of Mars.

The Hugo Awards have been announced. Can't wait to hear Mr. Sales' take on this year's picks:

http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/sample-the-best-science-fiction-of-the-year...

The Hugos are broken... Actually, they have been for several decades. They're based on a model of fandom that hasn't existed since the 1960s, and the various changes implemented recently have done nothing to improve things.

My local scifi reader group has been trying to identify fairly recent scifi books for future monthly reads so I'm reading this thread with interest. We keep ending up with Fantasy books and bad Steampunk. Most of us are Fantasy readers but one member in particular is getting frustrated as it's supposed to be a scifi group.

My dinosaur is showing, all my best scifi reads are old! Last meeting we actually got down to the question, "Can anyone recommend something with a spaceship or an alien in it?"

We did get a suggestion from a new member but will be looking for more.

There are plenty of good new sf novels - and many of them are arguably better than any of the so-called classics. You have, this year alone, 2312, Blue Remembered Earth, Empty Space, Existence, Dark Eden, in the Mouth of the Whale, Intrusion, alt.human, The Hydrogen Sonata, Slow Apocalypse, The Games...

Fandom...or fan-DUMB?

^111 John Scalzi's Old Man's War (spaceships! aliens!) is a fun book group book. I also recommend Robert Charles Wilson's The Chronoliths although that's not as easily obtainable. Recently there were several inexpensive copies available on bookcloseouts.com. And I imagine some libraries have it. Both of these books went over really well in my sci-fi book group.

^110 and ^112, I definitely agree that many new SF novels are better than the "classics." Not sure I agree that the Hugos are broken. I attend Worldcon and nominate/vote for the Hugos. I don't always like the results but them's the breaks.

Locus has won the best semiprozine Hugo for 22 of the 29 times it's been awarded. That says broken to me.

I don't put much stock in literary awards and fan-voted awards seem destined to feature mediocre choices, popular names and geekdom's latest darlings.

It would mean far more to me to be recognized by my peers, the folks who actually understand the trials and tribulations attendant to any creative endeavor. They've been through the fire and have the burns and scar tissue to show for it...

>116 CliffBurns: - normally that would be the case but if anything the Nebula Awards are now worse than the Hugo's.

^116 because.....??

^115 maybe people think it's the best semi-prozine.

#119 I simply don't put much credence in what a bunch of general SF readers have to say about what they consider "excellent" writing. The Hugo is particularly silly because, as I understand it, only those who attend the "World" conference can vote for the "Best" SF book of the year. That's a rather limited demographic, isn't it? Why should that crowd have any more credibility than the nameless twits behind the serially stupid "Golden Globe" awards, voted by...well, who the hell knows who those people are.

My experience with fan-dumb is that, as an entity, it's insular, conservative, not widely read, defensive, insecure and superficial. Not quick to accept innovation, valuing "golly gee whiz" ideas over solid, literary writing.

I've written about my problems with these folks before so we'll leave it at that.

119: It's the only semiprozine many of the voters have heard of. So they vote for it. Which means the award is broken.

Why even have a magazine award? Because it published the best fiction? There are three short fiction awards for that? It's editor did a really good job? There's a best editor - short fiction award for that. Why exactly does a magazine deserve an award?

Back in the 1960s, the magazines were the bleeding-edge of the genre. The fiction they published were indicative of what was happening in sf. And there were enough of them - paying pro-rates - to make sense of an ward. That situation hasn't existed for 40 years. Which means the award is broken.

And don't get me started on the fan writer Hugo. There's a reason pros are starting to win it now.

Cliff, you should say that you have a problem with "you folks" rather than "these folks" since I'm definitely one of them. :-) (I'm not offended, just discussing....) I attend Worldcon and vote on the Hugos. I consider myself fairly widely read, although I could do better. I'm not conservative (I assume you mean in reading, since most SF fans are politically liberal or at least not politically conservative).

By the way, you don't have to attend Worldcon to vote, just be a supporting member. Yeah, I know, it's not perfect because you have to pay money to be a supporting member. But if the voting were open to all and sundry via the Internet, then it would really be a popularity contest (more so than now), and the person with the most friends and relatives would win.

^121, some valid points. But you do know that Locus does not publish fiction, right? So it is not eligible for any of the other Hugo awards (the fiction or editing categories). I don't know all the long history of the fanzine Hugo spawning off the semi-prozine Hugo so I don't want to say anything inaccurate, but I think before the semi-prozine category, Locus kept winning the fanzine Hugo and since several people make their living from it, that was eventually deemed inappropriate.

Whether or not that category should exist, Locus is a wonderful resource and considered by most pro writers/editors and many fans to be very important to the field.

Anyway, I basically take the awards with a grain of salt. No award system is perfect. But I participate (I also vote for the Nebulas as a member of SFWA) and I think they serve an important purpose. And I would be very stoked to ever be nominated for one.

I don't know much about the sci-fi world outside of blogs and it is not one of the genres I usually read. However in the bloggular world they are some of my favorite places to hang out. The Tor editors, Patrick and Teresa Nielson Hayden, have the terrific "Making Light" blog which includes several SF writers in its stable of regular contributors, and has some of the most interesting conversations on the internet. I am sure everyone here is aware of Steve Brust and John Scalzi's blogs as well. Scalzi is really good at blogging. (As far as his other writing goes, I have only read Old Man's War but just based on that, I think he's a pretty decent writer.)

I guess you can always argue that popular voting is not the best way to decide on literary merit, but given the lack of happiness with other awards which are chosen by panels of authors and/or critics, it does not seem like they are done well either. What's the best way to choose among books?

THAT is the question...

#122 Yes, I subscribe to Locus, though I don't read much of it. I'm not at all interested in who has sold what, the reviews rarely cover books I'm interested in, but they have the occasional article that's worth reading. None of which makes it deserving of 22 Hugo awards.

A lot of British magazines were historically excluded from the semiprozine category because they didn't have the necessary circulation - despite the UK market being much smaller, and such numbers being out of reach of British mags. If any magazine has consistently deserved the Hugo, it's Interzone but it's never won because it was always up against Locus and US fans have heard of Locus.

No award system may be perfect, but that's different to being broken. The Hugos are based on a model of the genre that hasn't existed for 40 years. They still don't know how to handle online content, and we've had the Internet for 20 years. They claim to be for the entire genre but the voter pool is tiny and has very fixed tastes - cf Connie Willies winning it last year for a pair of bloated historically-inaccurate pieces of themepark Blitziana that was crudely welded back into one for the awards.

>116 CliffBurns: - the Nebulas are worse than the Hugos because it is a peer based award and yet still give Connie Willis the best novel (see above).

Not to mention the Mormon whale rape novella...

Read your piece on the Hugos and state of SF this morning, Ian:

http://iansales.com/2012/09/06/the-hugos-are-broken-science-fiction-is-broken-ev...

As per usual, you make some good, valid points.

127: Fifty Shades? I thought Parliament outlawed whale torture?

I have to correct myself -- I just read a post by Cheryl Morgan reporting on Hugo rules changes; there are changes to fanzine and semi-prozine rules that now make Locus ineligible, but (as Cheryl states) "Liza Groen Trombi is, of course, still eligible in Best Editor: Short Form". Which of course implies that she was eligible all along. I think it would be weird to nomiate the editor of a news magazine for Editor: Short Form, but nonetheless I was wrong about that.

Ian, does the fact that the rules have changed so that Locus is no longer eligible make any difference to you? I mean, at least it indicates that the Hugo administrators are constantly trying to improve the awards process. And although they may not be perfect at handling online content, they're trying. Electronically published stories (such as those published in "Strange Horizons" or other online-only venues) have been eligible for years, and I think some have been nominated.

I will look at your post (thanks for the link, Cliff) later today.

Replying to madpoet in msg #10

Scott, "And He Built a Crooked House" is HANDS DOWN my favorite Heinlein short story! :) See? I knew we were of a mind!

My #1 favorite Heinlein novel is "The Door Into Summer" with "Methuselah's Children" a close second...maybe tied with the way the scene in "Time Enough for Love" (as told in Lazarus's POV) is retold in "To Sail Beyond the Sunset" (from Maureen's POV) but it was in "Methuselah's Children" that the "future history" really solidified for me.

-sry
webbiegrrl

Replying to anna_in_pdx in msg #123:

QUOTE
I don't know much about the sci-fi world outside of blogs and it is not one of the genres I usually read. However in the bloggular world they are some of my favorite places to hang out. The Tor editors, Patrick and Teresa Nielson Hayden, have the terrific "Making Light" blog which includes several SF writers in its stable of regular contributors, and has some of the most interesting conversations on the internet. I am sure everyone here is aware of Steve Brust and John Scalzi's blogs as well. Scalzi is really good at blogging. (As far as his other writing goes, I have only read Old Man's War but just based on that, I think he's a pretty decent writer.)
ENDQUOTE
(how do I actually quote or italicize on LT forums? I'm new here, can you tell?)

Anna, Scalzi is an absolutely hilarious blogger or novelist when he wants to be and TNH/PNH's blog is right up there on the high-interest, relevant topics, wry wit meter. The OMW series really fell apart after the first book, though. I was so disappointed with The Ghost Brigades after that mention of them in OMW and the failure to really follow up on the protagonist's "roommate" who allegedly entered the GB's before even lifting off. I think Scalzi's world-building, however, was right up there, with the best of them.

Scalzi's gadgetry in the BrainPal(tm) descriptions rivaled Heinlein's prophetic solar panelling and robotic butlers to sweep the floor. Except I think the BrainPal(tm) documentation alone had me spewing my coffee on the pages it was so hilarious. Heinlein may have captured my imagination better with some of his gadgets and worlds, but he never made me LOL while reading a book. Scalzi usually can.

-sry
webbiegrrl

That was an interesting blog post by Ian -- again, thanks to Clif for the link. I don't agree with all of it, and there is some I agree with but that I don't feel as strongly about, but it gave me a lot to think over, and I will continue to do so.

132: Thanks! I will try to read a few more of his (Scalzi's) books. I like funny. Funny is good. I have read exactly one Heinlein and it was awful, the politics just "subtle like a brick".

If anyone tells her how to italicize, I would appreciate knowing that too. I am really not up on doing fancy things in discussion groups like formatting. I use Word like a demon though. :)

I have posted this in the SF topic of LT also. Google's tribute to Star Trek with an interactive logo today:

https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&tab=ww

As a Trekkie, I'm appalled.

As a cynical student of human society, a true blue misanthrope, I feel vindicated.

Be sure to try the "interactive" part. Click on the rock & tree first when you see it. ;-)

^136 Why appalled?

As a Trekkie and Star Trek author, I love it.

Yeah what is so awful about Google celebrating the show, if you're a trekkie?

Google = corporate scum. Sorry, associating a show from my childhood with a huge multi-national with the soul of a skinned viper...well, apologies if I don't jump for joy.

>140 CliffBurns: - that's not logical. Star Trek was made by Paramount, a big corporation, and is now owned by CBS, a big corporation. Google have had nothing to do with the Star Trek franchise being exploited over the years.

I admit that Google have some dodgy practices but compared to the other big 3 tech companies - Apple, Microsoft, and Amazon - they almost seem saintly.

"Logical"? "Logical"? You dare use that sacred word in the vicinity of a Trekkie?

I don't like Google or any of the big boys. I don't like endorsements of white collar criminals and nerds with the conscience of hyenas. Shilling for shits, my dears, just don't care for it...

I do believe that when Amazon bought ABEbooks, they also bought ABEbooks' significant share (40%?) of LibraryThing. I hope you like Amazon, Cliff, or your continued use of LibraryThing is highly questionable! ;-)

The long, multi-tentacled reach of the corporates. Ugh. Inescapable and odious.

Buy local!

How is logical a sacred word? And isn't given undue sanctity to a word utterly illogical?

I'll be playing Blackjack in the corner with Ludwig Wittgenstein and Alan Turing

Here ya go KS ;-)

http://www.google.com/doodles/alan-turings-100th-birthday

Another homage to Turing:

http://hilobrow.com/2011/06/23/alan-turing/

Thanks for those suggestions iansales and amysissons, I'll definitely start checking them out. :)

Cool science fiction site:

http://singularityand.co/

William Gibson, first of 3-part interview in WIRED:

http://www.wired.com/underwire/2012/09/interview-with-william-gibson/

(From that Gord guy)

I recently finished up Dan Simmons's Fall of Hyperion. I must agree with the general consensus that it falls short of Hyperion. I could look past the scattered pacing and awkward chunks of present tense narration. Chalk it up as part of storytelling via dreamer/voyeur looking in on distant events. However, near the end when it started talking about love being the force that binds together the universe I started losing patience. Love is nice. It's done some good things for me over the years. I just don't want it stirred together with a heap of metaphysical musings and poured into my SF. Eh, maybe I was just extra grouchy from being under the weather and unable to sleep at 3 a.m.

I still plan on finishing out the series with the Endymion books.

Surprised no one mentioned Roadside Picnic by the Strugatsky brothers

Mentioned recently on the film thread (I think). I finished that book about 2 weeks ago (new translation). It was quite superb.

#253 The translator of Roadside Picnic has posted on LT evidently, in the Science Fiction topic area. Link:

http://www.librarything.com/topic/119361#3453130

square_25 is their handle here.

Thanks for the info. Nice to see LT continues to draw a big-brained crowd.

Michael Dirda on "fantastic fiction":

http://www.laphamsquarterly.org/roundtable/roundtable/beyond-the-fields-we-know....

(Thanks, Gord)

Thanks Cliff & Gord,

A great article. Makes me want to re-examine that early period.

Turns out Neal Stephenson is a crappy non-fiction writer:

http://www.avclub.com/articles/neal-stephenson-some-remarks-essays-and-other-wri...

Stick with William Gibson's latest collection of non-fiction.

I could have told you that - I read In the Beginning was the Command Line back in the 1990s and it was rubbish.

I kind of lost interest with ol' Neal when he started turning out books only slightly smaller than the Tokyo phone directory. But SNOW CRASH is still pretty darn good...

Nothing wrong with girth, so long as it is filled with actual content, not filled. Then again, Americans and the sci fi publishing industry loves empty bloat, especially if you can sell it as profundity. (I think we've all made this point countless times.)

On the other hand, Gibson's non-fiction shines, but his fictional work has been lagging somewhat, since the sequel to Pattern Recognition was a dud. But Spook County can be read less as a high-tech spy thriller (Gibson isn't Clancy) than a Benjaminian meditation on the products of late capitalism. I'm curious how Zero History turns out, since it ends his loose trilogy.

I liked Stephenson's overview of the international cable laying industry that was tacked on to the end of Cryptonomicon. Not exactly gripping stuff, but he held my interest.

Cryptonomicon came up in my local reading group recently, primarily because we just read Diamond Age and found it rather slow so were discussing other books by the author. Would you recommend it?

We've just started reading Fahrenheit 451 which is a real deja-vu feeling as I read it many decades ago and can see it with a different perspective now. I've always liked Ray Bradbury.

164: What about Gravity's Rainbow? The book it's constantly compared to by critics. It's another doorstopper set in WW 2 and it's all about elusive codes and such.

CRYPTONOMICON is an interesting book, especially if one has some knowledge of code-breaking, history, etc. But I found it overlong and often felt I was stumbling around in a maze...fortunately there was no minotaur lurking around the corner.

I liked it a lot and read through it quickly. As always with Stephenson, though, it was marred by a weak ending.

Has anyone read any of the novels he collaborated with his uncle on--I believe they write under the pen name Stephen Bury.

#164 I would agree with justifiedsinner's comment about Cryptonomicon being marred by a weak ending. The only Stephenson I have read that I feel had a satisfactory ending was REAMDE.

Despite their weak endings I enjoy his novels. He usually has some interesting ideas, sufficiently interesting for me to forgive weak endings.

ETA Snow Crash is my favourite Stephenson novel. It is just such great fun.

#168 CliffBurns

Of his collaborations with his uncle I've only read The Cobweb. It was OK but not brilliant. You can checkout my review on it if you're interested.

I also have Interface but have not read it yet.

I wasn't aware that he used the name Stephen Bury for collaborations, so I could be missing out on a whole tranch of his works.

ETA: I've just checked the disambiguation page and it looks like I have the two books concerned. Apparently they were re-published under the authors' real names.

Thanks for the input...and the review.

#168 CliffBurns
I've also read The Cobweb, which turned out to be a fairly decent novel. I am no fan of the genre (technological thriller, perhaps?), but it all flowed together well and the characters were nicely fleshed out. There was a certain balance between "thriller" and "setting", which made it a pleasant read. In fact when I finally managed to finish REAMDE a couple of years later, I realised that it was hardly more than an overly melodramatic rehash of the basic idea behind The Cobweb. And one that took something like 600 pages too many to get to the point, with an ending that felt more appropriate in an big budget action movie.

I might be completely wrong here, but it seems that Stephenson might have too much freedom from editors these days - if there even is such a thing. His two last novels were a bit underwhelming.

I am a bit surprised to find this thread nearing its 200th reply without a mention of Stanisław Lem. I don't think I've ever read better science fiction - but I imagine that with his style translations can really get in the way. I've read (and reread) both his serious (like Solaris or His master's voice) and more humorous novels many times (Star Diaries being probably my favourite).

From modern novels, my favourite recent discovery was Ken MacLeod wonderful The Fall Revolution series - some of the most intelligent science-fiction I've read.

Finally, while other books by Bruce Sterling can often be of questionable quality, I'd say that Schismatrix deserves to be read by any science fiction fan.

#172--When I think techno thriller, can't help but think of Philip Kerr. He's done a couple of beauties...

#164 For what it is worth I tried to read Gravity's Rainbow and while the prose is interesting it was so damn depressing I could not finish it. Just a horrid malaise which must come from actual experience of the WWII bombardment of Great Britain and blending math with philosophical fatalism on one level IMOHO.

Quite worth a read if you are ready for something like that I am sure. I think I got through maybe 50 pages or so.

Ah, Pynchon. He is the Master. But he is demanding, no question. Like many of the best authors are...

Cliffburns, you've just sparked an idea for a Minotaur story. ;)

My pleasure.

Article on Iain Banks' Culture series:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/oct/10/hydrogen-sonata-iain-m-banks-review?...

...and how about an interview with the man himself:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/audio/2012/oct/12/iain-banks-book-club-podcast

Bless the GUARDIAN. And my pal Gord for sending this my way.

This sounds really fascinating:

http://www.sfreviews.net/tidhar_osama.html

It looks like a pulpy, post-9/11, metafictional variant of 2666, especially when it comes to people trying to find a reclusive author with an ambiguously punny name.

This sounds really fascinating:

http://www.sfreviews.net/tidhar_osama.html

It looks like a pulpy, post-9/11, metafictional variant of 2666, especially when it comes to people trying to find a reclusive author with an ambiguously punny name.

I have a copy, but I've yet to read it. But it's been getting a lot of very positive reviews from some smart people.

Righto, added to my inter-library loan roster.

^I've only heard good things about it. I have to admit, it's not my usual kind of thing, but I'm intrigued enough to want to read it.

Nominated for the Campbell, the British SF Award and the World Fantasy award.

^Oh dear, you've probably just scared a few people here off! ;-)

Five minutes with Iain Banks:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-20181130

Watched the end of the half-season of Dr. Who last night. Gotta love Steven Moffat and his nightmare-fuel-inducing angels.

Dear kswolff,

Recently read 2 "Warhammer 40K" novels.
Space Marine & Inquisitor both by Ian Watson

They certainly have little joy of life. Or is it just Watsons interpretation of the 40K universe?

Are there any others you would recommend?

Guido.

PS. I do hope I end up hating them. My completist
gene is alread saying "...you will never be able to get all 260+ with more each year..."

I'd recommend the Eisenhorn trilogy, since Watson's interpretation of Warhammer 40K is no longer canon. But Watson does nail down Warhammer 40K's patented blend of military dystopia and Lovecraftian nightmare beasties. I enjoy them as a nice change-up from literature involving East Coast English professors cheating on their wives.

...involving East Coast English professors cheating on their wives...

Who turn out to be Zombies Yep, I think I could read that genre. :-)

PS. Ordered that trilogy.

Hey, Ian, have you heard about this l'il flick? I read about it in SIGHT & SOUND. Could be another little sleeper, like Duncan Jones' "Moon".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNAqHkO1VA0

Yup. It's actually an extended concept promo for a band, though I must admit it looks intriguing.

Some really terrible sci fi cars:

http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/worst-scifi-cars.php

I like the "bug" cars in the first example. I am surprised there are no "atomic" cars - I guess when that misnomer was popular there was not a cinematic venue to exploit the concept. Then again maybe any "atomic" cars were cool!

#195 Then again maybe any "atomic" cars were cool!

You obviously have a great fission for the future.

Oh, there were atomic cars:

http://www.damninteresting.com/the-atomic-automobile/

Yep, I definitely would op for the "finned" edition.

That is pretty cool! Would the exhaust coming out be radioactive?

Don't think of it as radiation, think of it as a way to smoke a healthful, soothing cigarette with every cell in your body.

(Probably not though because it was supposed to be a steam engine powered by a small reactor. Now the traffic accidents — they'd have been radioactive!)

Sci fi's "iron dreams":

http://ed-rex.com/reviews/iron_dream_is_alive_and_well

Two chatbots talking to each other. It'll blow your mind, man!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnzlbyTZsQY

William Gibson predicts the Internet of 2013:

http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/gibson-neuromancer-twitter.php

So let me get this straight ... you like science fiction but hate Gene Wolfe, the most literate, allusive, and tricky SF writer out there?

Take an inconclusive short story like the changeling - tons of weird interpretations out there, but looking at the surface details reveal that you can verify what actually happened with objective extra textual information. The story involves a war criminal returning to his home town, Peter Pan allusions and all, to discover a certain young boy has not aged, and no one notices except our narrator and the boy's father. Later, when the narrator tries to find himself in a yearbook page from the 4th grade, he sees the boy there, and he is not.

You can figure out what happened - some say he split in 1945 like Korea to create an escape after his family crumbled, but if the narrator is correct about his age, he would not have been old enough to go to war. If you look at the date of 1931 as the birth date (since in the text this is the date the child appeared, according to the father), then look up the name Peter Palmer (our narrator), you find the actor who played Lil' Abner, who was born in 1931, and that lil' Abner was a notorious oaf, and that the name oaf implies a changeling, such that at the heart of the mystery is the fact that our narrator is three years older than he believed himself to be, switched and birth and then his own memory augmented by his wrestling with the boy who took his place - there are objective realities outside the text that point to its resolution. The keys to the mystery are the birth date of an actor and the history of the word oaf, which can be applied to overturn the narrators claim of a 1935 birth and eliminate the problem of his age in the war, as well as the existence of a furnished room for the young changeling when he appears. Wolfe's work is structurally sound and his implied details can be resolved outside his ignorant narrators.

He is a modernist because there is a bottom to get to with study, unlike the absurdist "overturn everything" and "randomness reigns" that I think lurks under Pynchon most of the time (sometimes you eat poop, sometimes the octopus gets you, sometimes war has no meaning ... huh)

The beauty of Wolfe, especially in New Sun, is the combination of powerful suggestive prose, an intense understanding of the slippery nature of symbols, and that religious weight that even misascribed and misbegotten still seems to have all the authority of the divine.
Let's take an example of the pun of Theseus in New Sun:
The story of the student and his son, does several things. In addition to being a syncretic myth, it gives us a picture of what Abaia and his brood are, who are operating unseen. That large ship in the story really "shows up" at the conclusion of the story in Citadel, going down the river when he is returning to Nessus, issuing commands to its minions "do this and this and this". The story of searching for the bird can be applied to the larger quest of true/false suitor to the New Sun (Baldanders as false suitor to the Cacogens). All those embedded stories apply to the larger story and sometimes provide the much needed "motivation" and understanding to the characters.

Wolfe creates metonymic symbols within his texts (In Peace, trees become a symbol for death, and other words become supercharged with meaning in his texts as well, and when these objects or words show up they illicit an interpretive burden on the re-reader to identify the situation, but he also sets up tales in parallel: if every embedded story is a ghost story full of dead people and a murder, the narrator himself may be a ghostly long dead murderer's spirit).

Re-reading is a necessity, because he does not provide resolution but draws the line for resolution. Over and over in New Sun, water was compared with both renewal and death, from drowning at the beginning to the act of healing in Thrax where Severian stumbles three times in the cataracts of water when he is trying to heal the ill (baptism/healing coupled with the death of Christ). Later, the purging flood heals and destroys, but it has been set up over and over in every symbol of the text, that conflates healing with water ... and water with death. Very sophisticated stuff, Wolfe is a master writer on every level.

Philip K. Dick, coming to the small screen:

http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/philip-k-dick-the-man-in-the-high-castle-co...

Mmmm. Dick, small, coming in the same sentence.

No, Lent starts tomorrow I'm not going to go there.

SyFy will destroy it.

I'm not going to go there.

You just did.

They don't call me subtle for nothing.

So much of our speech is contradictory. Don't think of an elephant.

Some folks I know have produced two documentaries of interest to fantasy and science fiction fans. One is a biography of one of the great dark fantasy writers of the past 50 years, Charles Beaumont, the other is a feature about Forrest Ackerman (publisher of FAMOUS MONSTERS OF FILMLAND). Check 'em out here:

http://www.jasunnistore.com/beaumont

A meteor hits central Russia, injuring 500:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/02/15/russia-meteorite/1921991/

Sometimes science fiction bleeds into the everyday. This story sounds like something from either Against the Day or a major plot point from one of William Gibson's novels set in the present.

The footage shown on the news media looked like segments from 'Independence Day'...

I keep looking for reports of the first to find a chunk of the meteorite but none have splashed the news yet. NPR radio had an interview with a meteorite/geologic sample salesman and he said scads of people like he were headed to Russia.

On the news tonight it looked like it had punched through the ice on a frozen lake.

I saw where another meteor blazed through the night sky over San Francisco in the USA. Scientists explained it was not connected to the Russian monster but just some sort of deity, with poor aim, taking a shot at the city. ;-)

216: From the calm and sensible dispatches of the Religious Right, one would think that teh gayz controlled meteors, along with earthquakes and Obama voters. Is there anything they can't do?

**Insert tongue firmly in cheek**

Update to #215, that was just a hunk of it that landed in the lake. The debris field is apparently 800 sq. mi. The thing thankfully blew up 10 miles up else things would have been really, really bad. There was also a report of another one spotted over Cuba in addition to the one in San Fran.

I thought it exploded 30 miles up. Given the yield was about 16 times the Hiroshima bomb the higher the better.

Every news report I see has a different number. I'm sure it will still be a while before they get it completely figured out.

The 2012 Nebula Award nominees:

http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/free-samples-of-the-nebula-award-nominees_b...

(With free samples.)

Wow, I thought Tor books were classified as"pulp" by most folks but I also thought Kim Stanley Robinson was dead - so that kind of puts my knowledge of literature into perspective. {I am not wishing any bad luck on anyone, glad he is alive!}

222: Mr. Robinson isn't exactly old. The actress who played Mrs. Robinson is dead. Sad to say, coo coo ka choo.

But her husband is still making millions from fart jokes.

Help Damien Walter at THE GUARDIAN find quality, independently published science fiction:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2013/feb/22/sci-fi-hunt-independently-...

(Seen this, Ian?)

He's already read Adrift on the Sea of Rains. He called it "one of the most outstanding self-published books of the year" :-) Besides, those sorts of thing are all noise and no signal. First rule of self publishing: exploit your friends :-)

Ahhh, so that's the chap. Well, good for him for looking farther afield for good fiction. Corporate publishing keeps scraping off another layer from the bottom of the toilet bowl--it's in the small press and indie world where the real treasures often lie.

I think he's just realised how much he's taken on - 525 comments and counting...

God, how I hate idiot fans:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-22542222

I'm a total fan of both Star Wars and Doctor Who, but I'd rather have a sonic screwdriver than a light saber any day. And the Doctor would totally kick Yoda's little green ass in a fight.

229: The gist of the article seems to be that it should never have been published because nothing actually happened and it is just feeding silly stereotypes about SF fans. At least, that is what the people interviewed are saying. I say this article is more about idiot journalism than idiot fans.

Fan-dumb.

Anyone who follows these silly, money-sucking franchises needs to either change their day job...or GET one.

229: I haven't read about a conflict so inconsequential since the War of Jenkins Ear

232: Anyone who follows these silly, money-sucking franchises needs to either change their day job...or GET one. How are those strongly worded letters to J.J. Abrams going?

Hey, Ian, have you seen this one? "2001: A Space Odyssey"...for kids:

http://dreamsofspace.blogspot.de/2013/05/2001-space-odyssey-howard-johnsons.html

Are you familiar with this site? Looks like it might be up your alley, space geek.

(Another treasure dug up and exposed to the world by Gord)

Yeah, I've been following that site for a while :-)

I'm enjoying the stories and excerpts from the Nebula Awards Showcase Yes, yes, the Nebulas are a mess and the whole novella/novelette classification leaves me totally mystified. Still, every award has its own set of baggage, limitations, factions, and nostalgic naysayers. But ... but! The Nebulas should look further afield, specifically at small and indie presses, in search of the new and the strange, rather than anointing the same few names from the same few publications. (Actually, one can say that of most awards, including the Oscars and the Pulitzers.)

Q & A with Harlan Ellison:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2013/jun/14/harlan-ellison-q-and-a-interview

(Thanks, Gord)

William Shakespeare's Star Wars:

http://www.avclub.com/articles/ian-doescher-william-shakespeares-star-wars,99579...

Looks like a lot of fun. And in the spirit of equal time, here is the "To be or not to be" soliloquy in Klingon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiRMGYQfXrs

The last few Years i have found new quality prose by Julie E. Czerneda and her latest trilogi Stratification starting at Reap the Wild Wind
David Brin also writes really well. Existence may be his finest to date.
And i find that Edward M. Lerner recently has put a nice literary touch to the Ringworld series in Fleet of Worlds

Apparently the NSA has good taste in interior design:

http://boingboing.net/2013/09/09/replica-enterprise-br.html

I can almost hear Cliff's head exploding at this new revelation.

But #240, Is he a "good Spook?"

#240 - is probably a better Spock than he is a spook

Well, someone was going to say it

Darth Vader with dialogue of Little Anakin from the Phantom Menace:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_H3_g9PhnM

Amazing footage of a shuttle launch--check this out, Ian:

http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/2Jhwx7

#244 I got water on my face when it landed, I want my money back for the ride. ;-)

#244 Great video.

"Gravity" still number 1 at the box office. Like to see this one at a decent theater--our local establishment just don't cut it.

Ian, have you see it yet?

It's not been released in the UK yet, Cliff.

Ah...and your level of interest in seeing it?

Cliff, I am trying to talk Chris into going to that. I read a review of it in Rolling Stone that mentioned professional astronauts really liked it for its true to life rendition of what it is like for them, but when I told this to Chris he said "that would mean that it is going to be really boring. 'Hey, can you go check that gauge again?'"

Chris undoubtedly has a point. And I'm sure the space scenes won't be completely silent (eh, forget that vacuum!) but I'm curious about a SF film that doesn't involve interstellar war, militarism, pulp plots and the Michael Bay School of Directing. I think some of the reviews draw comparisons to "2001", but that's reaching. Cuaron is a fine director, but he ain't no Kubrick...

Apropos this discussion:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24518305